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	<title>Comments on: The Great American Land Swindle: Digging Up Victorville’s Speculative Fossil Record (Updated)</title>
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	<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/</link>
	<description>All the news not fit to print: Gary Brecher the War Nerd, Mark Ames, Yasha Levine, Eileen Jones and the rest of Team eXiled</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-12621</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-12621</guid>
		<description>As a writer, it must be fun to be so negative and boring... Stay in Moscow. We are all better off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a writer, it must be fun to be so negative and boring&#8230; Stay in Moscow. We are all better off.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6495</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 04:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6495</guid>
		<description>As a young Navy fighter pilot stationed at NAS Miramar in San Diego in the early 1970s, I witnessed – and almost became a victim – of an Apple Valley land scam.

A local San Diego company recruited junior naval officers, active or recently separated, to sell real estate in Apple Valley to their colleagues.  

Any prospect who showed an iota of interest was hauled up with other prospective dupes to view the area, and select a prospective desert "lot".  Of course then the real HARD SELL began.  And if you didn't buy that day, the sales people hounded you for weeks.

Although the land was nearly worthless, the salesmen made a large commission on each sale.  Moreover, a buyer who bought a lot often could sell it six months later to another, greater fool at a nice profit.  The land appreciation was so great and so frequent that even the salesmen starting buying lots to flip, in addition receiving their large commissions.

It became so rampant that the Navy put out a decree that prohibited and Apple Valley land solicitation on their naval bases.  But young naval officers with tales of large and nearly immediate returns on flipped land to their friends fueled a speculative fever like wildfire.

Naturally, it eventually all came crashing down.  The principals skipped out to Mexico, wealthy.  Most others ended up owning worthless land with a high mortgage.  And these were highly educated, talented, and professional men.  Although one of my squadron mates and roommate off base was one of the salesmen, along with two other close friends selling, I thankfully never bought – even after a rough and tumble hard sell (it almost came to blows) with two of the principles late one night.     

It all was  a valuable lesson than has saved me from stupid investments for the subsequent 40 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a young Navy fighter pilot stationed at NAS Miramar in San Diego in the early 1970s, I witnessed – and almost became a victim – of an Apple Valley land scam.</p>
<p>A local San Diego company recruited junior naval officers, active or recently separated, to sell real estate in Apple Valley to their colleagues.  </p>
<p>Any prospect who showed an iota of interest was hauled up with other prospective dupes to view the area, and select a prospective desert &#8220;lot&#8221;.  Of course then the real HARD SELL began.  And if you didn&#8217;t buy that day, the sales people hounded you for weeks.</p>
<p>Although the land was nearly worthless, the salesmen made a large commission on each sale.  Moreover, a buyer who bought a lot often could sell it six months later to another, greater fool at a nice profit.  The land appreciation was so great and so frequent that even the salesmen starting buying lots to flip, in addition receiving their large commissions.</p>
<p>It became so rampant that the Navy put out a decree that prohibited and Apple Valley land solicitation on their naval bases.  But young naval officers with tales of large and nearly immediate returns on flipped land to their friends fueled a speculative fever like wildfire.</p>
<p>Naturally, it eventually all came crashing down.  The principals skipped out to Mexico, wealthy.  Most others ended up owning worthless land with a high mortgage.  And these were highly educated, talented, and professional men.  Although one of my squadron mates and roommate off base was one of the salesmen, along with two other close friends selling, I thankfully never bought – even after a rough and tumble hard sell (it almost came to blows) with two of the principles late one night.     </p>
<p>It all was  a valuable lesson than has saved me from stupid investments for the subsequent 40 years.</p>
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		<title>By: RT Carpenter</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6463</link>
		<dc:creator>RT Carpenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 05:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6463</guid>
		<description>The loss of the Roy Rogers museum was the beginning of the end for Victorville.  Your fossil from 1961 reminded me of a book I bought around that time.  It had all the selling points for the unlimited future of Palmdale, California.  I wished then I could invest in Palmdale.  Of course, I had no money then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The loss of the Roy Rogers museum was the beginning of the end for Victorville.  Your fossil from 1961 reminded me of a book I bought around that time.  It had all the selling points for the unlimited future of Palmdale, California.  I wished then I could invest in Palmdale.  Of course, I had no money then.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6458</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 01:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6458</guid>
		<description>Was in Victorville this weekend by coincidence.  Essentially a cluster of houses and strip malls beside I-15.  At least it was better than Barstow, but not by much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was in Victorville this weekend by coincidence.  Essentially a cluster of houses and strip malls beside I-15.  At least it was better than Barstow, but not by much.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6448</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 19:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6448</guid>
		<description>Wait until the next wave of foreclosures hits in the next 18 months and then we will be likely seeing torched vacant homes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait until the next wave of foreclosures hits in the next 18 months and then we will be likely seeing torched vacant homes.</p>
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		<title>By: rick</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6423</link>
		<dc:creator>rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 23:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6423</guid>
		<description>@ don &amp; Yasha

Might be interesting (if painful and detrimental for your career) to include ahem certain observations and id-outbursts a certain Mr. A. has been on the DL about recently, but would certainly entertain certain readers.  

In all seriousness, you wouldn't have to get too "offensive." There's a valid anthropological element there. After I moved back to Chicago from NY I literally couldn't leave my house, I was so unmotivated, the lack of beautiful women destroyed my ability to navigate the world. It destroys the ability of friend groups to intermingle and have fun. Beautiful women give life to the social world, they solidify broad social networks and even prowling packs of males. One of the most disgusting elements of hanging with hippie guys was the sheer inability to admit "WE ARE OUT LOOKING FOR PUSSY." A community of ugly women is a community of broken social bonds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ don &amp; Yasha</p>
<p>Might be interesting (if painful and detrimental for your career) to include ahem certain observations and id-outbursts a certain Mr. A. has been on the DL about recently, but would certainly entertain certain readers.  </p>
<p>In all seriousness, you wouldn&#8217;t have to get too &#8220;offensive.&#8221; There&#8217;s a valid anthropological element there. After I moved back to Chicago from NY I literally couldn&#8217;t leave my house, I was so unmotivated, the lack of beautiful women destroyed my ability to navigate the world. It destroys the ability of friend groups to intermingle and have fun. Beautiful women give life to the social world, they solidify broad social networks and even prowling packs of males. One of the most disgusting elements of hanging with hippie guys was the sheer inability to admit &#8220;WE ARE OUT LOOKING FOR PUSSY.&#8221; A community of ugly women is a community of broken social bonds.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord of War</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6418</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord of War</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 08:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6418</guid>
		<description>Nice post, Yasha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, Yasha.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6411</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 12:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6411</guid>
		<description>#7 Snarky, there is at least some compassion everywhere, although some places seem to have markedly more compassion and charity and tolerance (NYC, SF, Seattle, Canada, Costa Rica), and others markedly more fear and greed and bullying (LA, Vegas, Atlanta, Mexico, Russia).

Remember how a lot of Americans were terrified that Communism after the Stalinist purges was a system where everyone, even the assassination-fearing dictator, was more miserable than they would be in a democracy and knew it, but each of them at each moment in time was better off trying to extend Communism and enslave more people than fight against it, so it sort of wound up growing like a tumor even though everyone knew how awful it was? Of course, arguably that's a little truth and a lot of American paranoia, but it's still a striking and scary concept that's probably true in a lot of small groups at a lot of brief times, even if it wasn't true for decades throughout all of global Communism.

A social system of heartless greed can be similarly corrosive and grow in the same way, even though again, most everyone knows they would be better off in a more charitable system. Like the (admittedly CIA assisted) Solidarity movement in Poland, or the 1890s Populists who started projects like Hull House or the Wobblies, you really have to work hard to effect any change on these large systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#7 Snarky, there is at least some compassion everywhere, although some places seem to have markedly more compassion and charity and tolerance (NYC, SF, Seattle, Canada, Costa Rica), and others markedly more fear and greed and bullying (LA, Vegas, Atlanta, Mexico, Russia).</p>
<p>Remember how a lot of Americans were terrified that Communism after the Stalinist purges was a system where everyone, even the assassination-fearing dictator, was more miserable than they would be in a democracy and knew it, but each of them at each moment in time was better off trying to extend Communism and enslave more people than fight against it, so it sort of wound up growing like a tumor even though everyone knew how awful it was? Of course, arguably that&#8217;s a little truth and a lot of American paranoia, but it&#8217;s still a striking and scary concept that&#8217;s probably true in a lot of small groups at a lot of brief times, even if it wasn&#8217;t true for decades throughout all of global Communism.</p>
<p>A social system of heartless greed can be similarly corrosive and grow in the same way, even though again, most everyone knows they would be better off in a more charitable system. Like the (admittedly CIA assisted) Solidarity movement in Poland, or the 1890s Populists who started projects like Hull House or the Wobblies, you really have to work hard to effect any change on these large systems.</p>
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		<title>By: ben housouer</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6402</link>
		<dc:creator>ben housouer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 22:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=8259#comment-6402</guid>
		<description>dear yasha...having reviewed your story, which is facinating, i'm afraid you may be missing the point.while it is true that real estate hucksters have been working the high desert for years they really didn't lure any suckers up there. that may be true of riverside, moreno valley, and the 10 freeway all the way to palm springs but not victorville. it is a state of mind just like all the high desert. in other words the suckers were already there, they just moved into bigger houses for a few years at someone elses expense. when it came time to go they just went. ordinarily they just switch mobile homes but if the banks are willing to upgrade the game to single family homes thats ok with the losers since they never pay the rent anyway.this game has been going on since charles manson hung out there.
so no, this is not the street of broken dreams where people were lured up there and screwed by the banks, this is the high desert rats fucking the banks for a few years free rent.
the high desert has always been and will always be the absolute fringe of american society. the people there actually don't care if they are homeless...thats why they're there...they are more or less left alone by the cops to cook meth or cut peoples heads off or whatever...sort of like american taliban in an american warizistan....this is not class warfare, it is civilized society vs barbarism...i love it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear yasha&#8230;having reviewed your story, which is facinating, i&#8217;m afraid you may be missing the point.while it is true that real estate hucksters have been working the high desert for years they really didn&#8217;t lure any suckers up there. that may be true of riverside, moreno valley, and the 10 freeway all the way to palm springs but not victorville. it is a state of mind just like all the high desert. in other words the suckers were already there, they just moved into bigger houses for a few years at someone elses expense. when it came time to go they just went. ordinarily they just switch mobile homes but if the banks are willing to upgrade the game to single family homes thats ok with the losers since they never pay the rent anyway.this game has been going on since charles manson hung out there.<br />
so no, this is not the street of broken dreams where people were lured up there and screwed by the banks, this is the high desert rats fucking the banks for a few years free rent.<br />
the high desert has always been and will always be the absolute fringe of american society. the people there actually don&#8217;t care if they are homeless&#8230;thats why they&#8217;re there&#8230;they are more or less left alone by the cops to cook meth or cut peoples heads off or whatever&#8230;sort of like american taliban in an american warizistan&#8230;.this is not class warfare, it is civilized society vs barbarism&#8230;i love it</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/digging-up-victorville%e2%80%99s-speculative-fossil-record/comment-page-1/#comment-6401</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 20:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"There are a lot of fat people; many of them 18-year-old girls with kids."

They say it's better to have had (forget loved) and lost than to never have had at all.  

When I lived in the US I would see a girl or two a week I might want to fuck and only one or two a year that I actually needed to fuck.

Now, while I walk through my SPB neighborhood in Ozerki I see a girl ever couple of minutes I want to fuck and at least 2-3 per day I need to fuck.  When downtown on Nevski Prospect the numbers increase exponentially.  

Knowing you once lived here yourself I'd empathize with you if I had the capacity.  Having had and lost it is I think much more painful than never having had it at all like the average citizens of Victorville.  

I don't know how you do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There are a lot of fat people; many of them 18-year-old girls with kids.&#8221;</p>
<p>They say it&#8217;s better to have had (forget loved) and lost than to never have had at all.  </p>
<p>When I lived in the US I would see a girl or two a week I might want to fuck and only one or two a year that I actually needed to fuck.</p>
<p>Now, while I walk through my SPB neighborhood in Ozerki I see a girl ever couple of minutes I want to fuck and at least 2-3 per day I need to fuck.  When downtown on Nevski Prospect the numbers increase exponentially.  </p>
<p>Knowing you once lived here yourself I&#8217;d empathize with you if I had the capacity.  Having had and lost it is I think much more painful than never having had it at all like the average citizens of Victorville.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how you do it.</p>
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