@Necronomic Justice: Obviously one shouldn’t look to Islam for any great smashing of authority…but it does take a very, very hard line against usury, so in that respect, yes. Google ‘sharia finance’, sift out the reich wing ‘o noes it funds terrists’ sites (there are a lot of them), and …well, you’d find it interesting, anyway.

Palmer Eldritch: I know you have sex-fantasies about older men, but I don’t swing that way.

Me: Who ever believed in wisdom of the electorate? I do not think I have ever heard voters called rational. We don’t have democracy because voters are rational. We have democracy because whether we are crazy or not, the government belongs to us. Rational thought is not a condition of democracy and it never will be. If it was democracy would disappear overnight. Rational thinking is certainly welcome but you will grow old waiting for it.

Corporatisim is slightly left of fascism. Tea partiers are slightly right of fascism. As things rise, they converge.

Are you pathetically old?

Are you saying the Koran has some kind of relevant critique of industrial capitalism?

Fascinating, go on, tell us some more.

In the case of the bankers, the leftist would have simply put them up against the wall, outlawed speculation and moved on.

Only in the narrow spectrum of America can Obama be considered to be even near the left.

Have you ever wondered why the owner of a major corporation needs government money when he has a luxury house and millions in assets? If his company is doing so bad he shouldn’t be rich anymore…

Myf: The system is wrong, but it’s wrong because we don’t allow companies that should fail to do so.

There was a time when working people thought they had nothing to lose but their chains, now they love the chains too much to even struggle against them.

I don’t understand any libertarian older than college age. Libertarianism is an ideology for people who realize the system is wrong but are too naive and uninformed to understand why. A half balked ideology like nazbols but without enough mass appeal (I wonder why a party full of bearded fat guys who think everyone else is stupider than them isn’t popular) to be barred from election.

The points about the government empowering corporations is true, but libertarianism becomes a sprint to the bottom in any implementation other an utter 100% total libertarian everything, as we’ve witnessed in the us since the late 70s.

I really hate people who talk about people being stupid and irrational, as if simply disagreeing with their enlightened views makes them no better than a farm animal. This amazing capitalism that manages to do its best to destroy capitalist economies every 10 years. Praise its glory

The ideal system is an economic democracy with publicly controlled commons in the framework of an Islamic communism (the labor theory of value appears in the Quran 1000 years before Marx) where submission to God replaces submission to head of state. let’s get started

I think libertarianism is a nice idea, but in today’s complex, capital intensive world, it would inevitably lead to monopolies and all that goes with them (i.e. it already happened).

No, statism and the belief that the government can fix anything is a religion.

You talk about some people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, how about taking voting away from the left whom after seeing collectivism thoroughly and repeatedly fail spend most of their time making up excuses for the fail left wing nations.

And those oligarchs you talk about are put in power by the LEFT.

Every time a major US corporation is about to go out of business the left lobbies, protest and demands that the government give bail outs and money to the corporations. They talk about 6000 or 10 000 jobs being at risk and use it as an excuse to make the oligarchs more and more powerful.

No company is to big to fail, the bigger they are the harder they fall. The only problem is that the unions, the left wingers and other mentally retarded people don’t want big corporations to fail, it’s too much of a hassle to start new corporations that perform better.

Here is a list of ways the oligarchs persuade you to give them more money:

1. Be patriotic, buy American cars/steel even though it really is cheaper and better for you to buy non-American.

2. Bail us out, just look how these poor American workers are risking their jobs. Give us your money.

3. Protect us, we can’t survive on our own, so we need you to stop international completion, even though the international market offers better and cheaper products since it has been subjected to more competition.

So after you retarded left wingers have given the oligarchs your money, sworn to buy their shitty products and stand obedient with a gun at the harbor protecting them from the evil foreign goods, after you’ve done all those things you cry about libertarians being to nice to the wealthy oligarchs.

There is a word for people like that LUNATICS.

I thought I hear Mark on http://freedomainradio.com

If so, he would know the difference between libertarians, anarchists, and Republicans.
I thought he knew.

These people are certifiable. THESE are the people who seriously should lose the right to vote. Look at the mug on that retard Caplan. I wouldn’t let that fucking idiot play with matches.

When people believe insane antisocial shit, we lock ‘em up for their own good. Medicate ‘em so they don’t hurt others. These idiots want to hurt EVERYBODY! Why? Oh, because some fucking AUSTRIAN said so. Some evil immoral Russian bitch said so. We got to chop holes in the bottom of the boat.. TO LET THE WATER OUT!!

Alice Rosenbaum was a fucking communist plant, part of Kojeve’s Synarchist gang. Her project to destroy capitalism from within has worked ONLY TOO WELL!

This ranges from the average and plentiful non-thinking american morons who are told by the media, using emotional, religious and patriotic psychological triggers, what opinion they should form/club they should be in, to the people who have the potential to think for themselves, but most often fall short with a conclusion that emotionally feels “good enough” for them but is either based on incomplete logic, a desire to be associated with an economic class higher than their own, or an outright self serving mercenary philosophy to their lot in life regardless of their realistic ability to attain what they desire in a purely competitive society.

What I just described encompasses 99.9% of any countries population, and is also why almost any population, in a democratic country, can be mostly manipulated to vote for whoever the elite deems their favorite for power.

This is why that scumbag Reagan’s statement, and more accurately Churchill’s similar statements, about the dangers of democracy hold reasonably true. The statements need not be in the context of preserving the..ahem.. “free market”, but are more accurately applied to todays situation of the people actively supporting and participating in the diminishment of their individual civil rights and social welfare. A democracy of idiots can lead to despotism, when voter opinion is actively controlled by corporate media and a mostly unregulated campaign finance policy. But the conclusion of “taking away” the voting rights of the many is an ironic example of the incompetent thinking of the very type of person that such a suggestion is meant to limit. Fucking idiots. We are truly a nation of intellectually limited children. As Ames suggests, that move would lead to the loss of all rights faster than anything else. The segregation/elimination of any persons rights endangers the rights of all. And no, I do not agree with the legal philosophy that corporations are persons.

But I digress…

Most people would be well served to analyze the conflicting “principles” of their individual political affiliations in the context of an exponentially expanding population.

You cant be a neocon, support the anti-contraception agendas of the religious right, and profess libertarian ideals at the same time. The increase in population directly hinders the practicality of libertarianism, and increases the mandate toward socialism.

You cant be a Neocon politician who secretly supports a porous Mexican border, to undercut the Native labor market to the benefit of business, and still expect the country not to fall into turmoil when the population explodes with no social programs to prop it up.

In short, libertarianism works in smaller populations relative to land and resources. Socialism is required as population rises to prevent a serious degradation in the quality of life for most people. You cant have a large population, a free market with limited socialist policies, and social order (The Neocon agenda – except they dont care about social order). That only leads to hell/debt slavery for the many, and insane wealth for the very, very few. That is why 99% of Neocon supporting middle class republicans are absolute morons. They vote against their own welfare more than any other type of voter.

A libertarian (lack of) government is a long lost and impossible dream with todays population numbers. Although, in low population countries, it would be a reasonable ideal.

We need to look to the very functional governments of the Scandinavian countries, which have the highest level of effective democracy in the world, combined with the highest levels of social egalitarianism. Until the vast majority of voters start caring about themselves enough to learn and think, they will be continuously fucked.