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	<title>Comments on: War Nerd: Ben Grierson, Actual Hero</title>
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	<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/</link>
	<description>All the news not fit to print: Gary Brecher the War Nerd, Mark Ames, Yasha Levine, Eileen Jones and the rest of Team eXiled</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 09:20:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Brian Wilkey</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-56066</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Wilkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 01:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-56066</guid>
		<description>Excellent story, with interesting side comments.  

I served in the Army and was stationed at several forts in southern states (where most forts are now located).  In the south, their civil war veterans are still revered and honored.

Griereson was from Jacksonville, Ill., when the war started.  When he retired from the Army, he returned to Jacksonville, where he died.  He is buried on the east side of town, in what is probably the least prestigious cemetery in town.  His grave is docorated with a newer government tombstone for the rank of general.  Someone, I don&#039;t have a clue, had seen to it that his old, damaged stone was replaced.  Unfortunately,  on Memorial Day, his gravesite was not decorated with the flag. (This was back in 1999.)  I am proud to say that I went to the local Walgreens and purchased one and put it on his grave. My way to honor such a man.  Again, thanks for your article, it did much more to honor him than I did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent story, with interesting side comments.  </p>
<p>I served in the Army and was stationed at several forts in southern states (where most forts are now located).  In the south, their civil war veterans are still revered and honored.</p>
<p>Griereson was from Jacksonville, Ill., when the war started.  When he retired from the Army, he returned to Jacksonville, where he died.  He is buried on the east side of town, in what is probably the least prestigious cemetery in town.  His grave is docorated with a newer government tombstone for the rank of general.  Someone, I don&#8217;t have a clue, had seen to it that his old, damaged stone was replaced.  Unfortunately,  on Memorial Day, his gravesite was not decorated with the flag. (This was back in 1999.)  I am proud to say that I went to the local Walgreens and purchased one and put it on his grave. My way to honor such a man.  Again, thanks for your article, it did much more to honor him than I did.</p>
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		<title>By: stonelifter</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-42786</link>
		<dc:creator>stonelifter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 08:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-42786</guid>
		<description>this would have been a much better article if it wasn&#039;t laced with the writers snide comments</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this would have been a much better article if it wasn&#8217;t laced with the writers snide comments</p>
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		<title>By: OogaBooga</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-42428</link>
		<dc:creator>OogaBooga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-42428</guid>
		<description>So Grierson was a hero in large part because he cared so deeply for the noble negro and the injuns, huh?

Hard to believe this sort of drivel comes from the pen of the same guy who wrote &quot;Please Don&#039;t Eat the Pygmies&quot;, a classic exposure of what the negro really is.

How about an article on the Lord&#039;s Resistance Army Gary?  Can&#039;t bring yourself to write about the little pickaninnies in Joseph Kony&#039;s child army gobbling up the flesh off their nappy-headed relatives&#039; bones?  That&#039;s something that doesn&#039;t fit the usual Brecher template of swooning adoration for anything with black skin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Grierson was a hero in large part because he cared so deeply for the noble negro and the injuns, huh?</p>
<p>Hard to believe this sort of drivel comes from the pen of the same guy who wrote &#8220;Please Don&#8217;t Eat the Pygmies&#8221;, a classic exposure of what the negro really is.</p>
<p>How about an article on the Lord&#8217;s Resistance Army Gary?  Can&#8217;t bring yourself to write about the little pickaninnies in Joseph Kony&#8217;s child army gobbling up the flesh off their nappy-headed relatives&#8217; bones?  That&#8217;s something that doesn&#8217;t fit the usual Brecher template of swooning adoration for anything with black skin.</p>
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		<title>By: pat b</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-40499</link>
		<dc:creator>pat b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 16:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-40499</guid>
		<description>Business is very different from war.
People lose money in business, in war they lose life and limb. It takes a real committment to stay at a shooting battle when a stock trader flees at a 10 point drop in the dow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Business is very different from war.<br />
People lose money in business, in war they lose life and limb. It takes a real committment to stay at a shooting battle when a stock trader flees at a 10 point drop in the dow.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-40062</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-40062</guid>
		<description>I love your articles. Can you do a new one again sometime soon? where ya been? get a new girlfriend or something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your articles. Can you do a new one again sometime soon? where ya been? get a new girlfriend or something?</p>
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		<title>By: Oksana</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-40054</link>
		<dc:creator>Oksana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-40054</guid>
		<description>Dear Gary,

it is to my utmost support and sympathy that you have decided, either consciously or through a growing sense of unease, to abandon The eXiled. 

This publication has become the embodiment of unstructured intellectual venom, of a perpetual adolescent rebellion that is unable to integrate into the adult world and which therefore is of no use to human civilization other than being an antithesis to what is worthy. 
A writer, thinker, and personality of your caliber has nothing whatsoever in common with the founders and hosts of this website, or what they have turned into. 

I hope you will get through the grief soon - other great men and women have been there before you when we mourned the loss of our bright youth as we saw them degrade into the mind-numbing self-hatred of the non-accomplisher. 

You shall rise again, and find yourself a worthy place in this virtual universe. No doubt it will be a nice, conservative website defending the traditional American values that are the pure essence of what you yourself honor. 

Let us know when you have found them, or when they have found you. 

Your faithful reader and supporter,
Oksana

PS: Where shall I email a jpeg of my conservative snapper?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Gary,</p>
<p>it is to my utmost support and sympathy that you have decided, either consciously or through a growing sense of unease, to abandon The eXiled. </p>
<p>This publication has become the embodiment of unstructured intellectual venom, of a perpetual adolescent rebellion that is unable to integrate into the adult world and which therefore is of no use to human civilization other than being an antithesis to what is worthy.<br />
A writer, thinker, and personality of your caliber has nothing whatsoever in common with the founders and hosts of this website, or what they have turned into. </p>
<p>I hope you will get through the grief soon &#8211; other great men and women have been there before you when we mourned the loss of our bright youth as we saw them degrade into the mind-numbing self-hatred of the non-accomplisher. </p>
<p>You shall rise again, and find yourself a worthy place in this virtual universe. No doubt it will be a nice, conservative website defending the traditional American values that are the pure essence of what you yourself honor. </p>
<p>Let us know when you have found them, or when they have found you. </p>
<p>Your faithful reader and supporter,<br />
Oksana</p>
<p>PS: Where shall I email a jpeg of my conservative snapper?</p>
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		<title>By: R. Mike</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-39967</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-39967</guid>
		<description>&quot;Over and over, in the worst place, you can count on the Quakers. Too bad they’ve disappeared. On second thought, that’s probably WHY they disappeared.&quot;

Oh, we&#039;re still around. I think you&#039;re thinking of Shakers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Over and over, in the worst place, you can count on the Quakers. Too bad they’ve disappeared. On second thought, that’s probably WHY they disappeared.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, we&#8217;re still around. I think you&#8217;re thinking of Shakers.</p>
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		<title>By: joe-bob</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-39603</link>
		<dc:creator>joe-bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-39603</guid>
		<description>C&#039;mon war nerd.... 11/11.... Armistice Day.  The Grierson peice was awesome but I&#039;m tired of seeing his face at the top of your column.  I haven&#039;t seen you do a lot of WW1 stuff, which is weird because it was foreshadowed in large part by the american civil war.

If you haven&#039;t delved too deeply into ww1, I highly recommend The Myth of a Great War by Mosier, it&#039;s right up your alley in subject mater, style, cynicism, etc.  It also shows why the standard take on that war is so *$#%ing boring - cause it&#039;s not what happened! (and the British wrote it...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C&#8217;mon war nerd&#8230;. 11/11&#8230;. Armistice Day.  The Grierson peice was awesome but I&#8217;m tired of seeing his face at the top of your column.  I haven&#8217;t seen you do a lot of WW1 stuff, which is weird because it was foreshadowed in large part by the american civil war.</p>
<p>If you haven&#8217;t delved too deeply into ww1, I highly recommend The Myth of a Great War by Mosier, it&#8217;s right up your alley in subject mater, style, cynicism, etc.  It also shows why the standard take on that war is so *$#%ing boring &#8211; cause it&#8217;s not what happened! (and the British wrote it&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Ilona</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38765</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 22:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38765</guid>
		<description>&quot;A Civil War hero? What a strange concept.&quot;

A tired man I am. Today I fucked my h-u-u-u-g-e chunky lovely lady only twice. If she tells you I fucked her three times, I&#039;d call her a liar. 

She&#039;s lovely.

Still no proper answer to my question.

I&#039;ll take the caps off, perhaps it&#039;ll do the trick: a civil war hero? What a strange concept. Is my question more sensible this way now? Nooo... 

Yup.

OK. I don&#039;t know much about history, but it seems to me that civil war heroes aren&#039;t that much celebrated around the world, because of a real 

good old fucking civil war terror factor that makes one&#039;s cranium explode out of of cheer joy if thinking any of it. 

Civil wars were quite often quite bloody ones. A brother against brother, a sister against sister - sometimes even within the family. All in the 

family against the family and perhaps your neighborhood against your family too. Nice. Basically, the working class against the ruling class.

If there wasn&#039;t enough blood spilled in the battlefield for your blood hungry appetite, then perhaps prision concentration camp mass 

executions without trials and starvation and etc. would satisfied your elegance - all the good stuff a human being can come up with 

when thinking about the best of his/her fellow brother&#039;s and sister&#039;s wellbeing. 

In many countries these civil war issues are very sensitive indeed, thus: no civil war heroes. Why? No need no further extra polarizarion - 

trying to heel the wounds of the Civil War and shit. 

So, my extended question is: is the Civil War (note the caps) hero an American concept? 

Perhaps a romanticized one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A Civil War hero? What a strange concept.&#8221;</p>
<p>A tired man I am. Today I fucked my h-u-u-u-g-e chunky lovely lady only twice. If she tells you I fucked her three times, I&#8217;d call her a liar. </p>
<p>She&#8217;s lovely.</p>
<p>Still no proper answer to my question.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll take the caps off, perhaps it&#8217;ll do the trick: a civil war hero? What a strange concept. Is my question more sensible this way now? Nooo&#8230; </p>
<p>Yup.</p>
<p>OK. I don&#8217;t know much about history, but it seems to me that civil war heroes aren&#8217;t that much celebrated around the world, because of a real </p>
<p>good old fucking civil war terror factor that makes one&#8217;s cranium explode out of of cheer joy if thinking any of it. </p>
<p>Civil wars were quite often quite bloody ones. A brother against brother, a sister against sister &#8211; sometimes even within the family. All in the </p>
<p>family against the family and perhaps your neighborhood against your family too. Nice. Basically, the working class against the ruling class.</p>
<p>If there wasn&#8217;t enough blood spilled in the battlefield for your blood hungry appetite, then perhaps prision concentration camp mass </p>
<p>executions without trials and starvation and etc. would satisfied your elegance &#8211; all the good stuff a human being can come up with </p>
<p>when thinking about the best of his/her fellow brother&#8217;s and sister&#8217;s wellbeing. </p>
<p>In many countries these civil war issues are very sensitive indeed, thus: no civil war heroes. Why? No need no further extra polarizarion &#8211; </p>
<p>trying to heel the wounds of the Civil War and shit. </p>
<p>So, my extended question is: is the Civil War (note the caps) hero an American concept? </p>
<p>Perhaps a romanticized one?</p>
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		<title>By: darthfader</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38704</link>
		<dc:creator>darthfader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 03:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38704</guid>
		<description>Gary, your columns fully prepared me for Gaddafi &amp; son getting dragged out of a burning car and shot in the head, and so I would love to read your take on this pressing matter of dome-peelin&#039; in the desert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, your columns fully prepared me for Gaddafi &amp; son getting dragged out of a burning car and shot in the head, and so I would love to read your take on this pressing matter of dome-peelin&#8217; in the desert</p>
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		<title>By: Dark Markets</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38671</link>
		<dc:creator>Dark Markets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38671</guid>
		<description>@64 joe-bob:  right on.
     It was the BLEND, the HIGH + LOW punch, of U.S. (&amp; Brit) strategic AND TACTICAL air that made D-Day possible. The 8th AF AND 9th AF Thunderbolts blasted everything that moved,  Stukas on steroids.   
  (EIGHT, count &#039;em, EIGHT forward firing .50 caliber guns - plus up to 1,000 lbs of bombs. T-bolt (&amp; Tempest) pilots - both those returning from STRATEGIC deep escort missions, and Tac Air -  loved nothing better than catching a German armored column (or supply train) on the road, and leaving &#039;em a blasted, burning, smoking,  shattered remnants.  
   (Ironically, in Korean war, it was the INFERIOR in ground-attack role P-51 Mustangs which did the bloody mass bloodletting of Chinese troops wherever they were concentrated - but 6 fifties, and 1,000 lbs of bombs, wasn&#039;t a bad &quot;2nd best,&quot; it was just that Mustang radiators could be destroyed with a single bullet.)   

 Although Speer&#039;s relocation &amp; dispersal of German industry was sheer genius, and negated SOME of the impact of USAF &quot;pin-point&quot; bombing - for example, German industry wasn&#039;t ground down to zero by bombing of ball-bearing plants at Schweinfurt as US commanders hoped - the loss of ECONOMIES OF SCALE couldn&#039;t help the Germans - and it was those DEEP PENETRATION raids which ground the Luftwaffe down.  

    Imagine if the Luftwaffe had been able to assemble 2,000 (dispersed) fighter-bombers to repulse D-Day: against sitting-duck ships &amp; especially troop-ships, it would have been a bloody massacre, to make Omaha beach look like a picnic in comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@64 joe-bob:  right on.<br />
     It was the BLEND, the HIGH + LOW punch, of U.S. (&amp; Brit) strategic AND TACTICAL air that made D-Day possible. The 8th AF AND 9th AF Thunderbolts blasted everything that moved,  Stukas on steroids.<br />
  (EIGHT, count &#8216;em, EIGHT forward firing .50 caliber guns &#8211; plus up to 1,000 lbs of bombs. T-bolt (&amp; Tempest) pilots &#8211; both those returning from STRATEGIC deep escort missions, and Tac Air &#8211;  loved nothing better than catching a German armored column (or supply train) on the road, and leaving &#8216;em a blasted, burning, smoking,  shattered remnants.<br />
   (Ironically, in Korean war, it was the INFERIOR in ground-attack role P-51 Mustangs which did the bloody mass bloodletting of Chinese troops wherever they were concentrated &#8211; but 6 fifties, and 1,000 lbs of bombs, wasn&#8217;t a bad &#8220;2nd best,&#8221; it was just that Mustang radiators could be destroyed with a single bullet.)   </p>
<p> Although Speer&#8217;s relocation &amp; dispersal of German industry was sheer genius, and negated SOME of the impact of USAF &#8220;pin-point&#8221; bombing &#8211; for example, German industry wasn&#8217;t ground down to zero by bombing of ball-bearing plants at Schweinfurt as US commanders hoped &#8211; the loss of ECONOMIES OF SCALE couldn&#8217;t help the Germans &#8211; and it was those DEEP PENETRATION raids which ground the Luftwaffe down.  </p>
<p>    Imagine if the Luftwaffe had been able to assemble 2,000 (dispersed) fighter-bombers to repulse D-Day: against sitting-duck ships &amp; especially troop-ships, it would have been a bloody massacre, to make Omaha beach look like a picnic in comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Cum</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38664</link>
		<dc:creator>Cum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 01:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38664</guid>
		<description>Targeting of civillian infrastructure with air strikes with the goal of turning the populace agianst their domestic leadership is a strategy NATO employed in Serbia and Libya and wars in between and so on.  Terror bombing, shock and awe campaigns, strategic targeting of non-military targets... whatever you call it, it&#039;s clearly still a popular tactic employed by the US.  There have to be people within our military establishment that know this strategy can backfire, just as there are probably some that understand aircraft carriers are metal coffins.  Our politicians and generals at least give some lip service to the importance of &quot;winning hearts and minds&quot; (meaning &quot;bribe people to stop murdering each other so much&quot;).  But usually that&#039;s all it is - lip service.  Clearly, the drive to use up all those expensive surplus bombs (so greedy weapons manufacturers can build more) is a primary motivator in shaping our military strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Targeting of civillian infrastructure with air strikes with the goal of turning the populace agianst their domestic leadership is a strategy NATO employed in Serbia and Libya and wars in between and so on.  Terror bombing, shock and awe campaigns, strategic targeting of non-military targets&#8230; whatever you call it, it&#8217;s clearly still a popular tactic employed by the US.  There have to be people within our military establishment that know this strategy can backfire, just as there are probably some that understand aircraft carriers are metal coffins.  Our politicians and generals at least give some lip service to the importance of &#8220;winning hearts and minds&#8221; (meaning &#8220;bribe people to stop murdering each other so much&#8221;).  But usually that&#8217;s all it is &#8211; lip service.  Clearly, the drive to use up all those expensive surplus bombs (so greedy weapons manufacturers can build more) is a primary motivator in shaping our military strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38663</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 22:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38663</guid>
		<description>I think history is pretty clear that terror bombing does not work.  Instead of crushing enemy morale it enhances it.  Raids like the blitz of London and the bombing of Dresden were a complete waste of bombs.  They only destroyed useless civilian structures and pissed off the enemy.

History is also pretty clear that close air support is extremely effective.  The Easter Offensive and the Ardennes Offensive completely ground to a halt as soon as the weather cleared.

As far as strategic bombing of enemy war production goes its a mixed bag.  Certainly bombing German oil production was effective but those resources may have been better applied elsewhere.  I would argue that since there the western allies had the advantage of the English channel for protection spending resources on strategic bombing was a good idea.  Bombers could be used right away to apply pressure.  Other war material like tanks had to be accumulated until there was enough for a cross channel invasion.  Russia on the other hand didn&#039;t have that luxury and had to devote all her resources to stopping the ground advance.

Strategic bombing also has diminishing returns.  The 100th bomber off the assembly line is much more cost effective than the 1000th.  I was under the impression the decision to bomb Dresden was because we had produced too many bombs and were running out of targets.  The war planners figured bombing civilians was better than letting the ordinance sit in a warehouse.

Here is a good resource on the effectiveness of bombing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_Survey_%28Europe%29

The evidence indicates that while strategic bombing was useful, it was overemphasized in WW2.  Its effectiveness depends on what is being bombed and how accurate it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think history is pretty clear that terror bombing does not work.  Instead of crushing enemy morale it enhances it.  Raids like the blitz of London and the bombing of Dresden were a complete waste of bombs.  They only destroyed useless civilian structures and pissed off the enemy.</p>
<p>History is also pretty clear that close air support is extremely effective.  The Easter Offensive and the Ardennes Offensive completely ground to a halt as soon as the weather cleared.</p>
<p>As far as strategic bombing of enemy war production goes its a mixed bag.  Certainly bombing German oil production was effective but those resources may have been better applied elsewhere.  I would argue that since there the western allies had the advantage of the English channel for protection spending resources on strategic bombing was a good idea.  Bombers could be used right away to apply pressure.  Other war material like tanks had to be accumulated until there was enough for a cross channel invasion.  Russia on the other hand didn&#8217;t have that luxury and had to devote all her resources to stopping the ground advance.</p>
<p>Strategic bombing also has diminishing returns.  The 100th bomber off the assembly line is much more cost effective than the 1000th.  I was under the impression the decision to bomb Dresden was because we had produced too many bombs and were running out of targets.  The war planners figured bombing civilians was better than letting the ordinance sit in a warehouse.</p>
<p>Here is a good resource on the effectiveness of bombing:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_Survey_%28Europe%29" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_Survey_%28Europe%29</a></p>
<p>The evidence indicates that while strategic bombing was useful, it was overemphasized in WW2.  Its effectiveness depends on what is being bombed and how accurate it is.</p>
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		<title>By: dale</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38662</link>
		<dc:creator>dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38662</guid>
		<description>excellent article Gary, you should develop a book or further concept articles for forgotten civil war heroes like this grierson fellow</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent article Gary, you should develop a book or further concept articles for forgotten civil war heroes like this grierson fellow</p>
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		<title>By: DF Sayers</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38659</link>
		<dc:creator>DF Sayers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 18:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38659</guid>
		<description>Hilariously, our UPS driver admitted to being a civil war re-enacter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hilariously, our UPS driver admitted to being a civil war re-enacter.</p>
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		<title>By: super390</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38649</link>
		<dc:creator>super390</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 01:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38649</guid>
		<description>@64:

There&#039;s probably a lot of truth to the argument that we forced the Luftwaffe to defend factories instead of the thing it was really good at, tactical ground support.  But did we really understand that at the time, or did we just get lucky?

Here&#039;s an example of how important the luck of good timing is.  In 1940, anticipating that he&#039;d beat Britain with the weapons he had on hand, Hitler shut down a lot of warplane research.  By the time this was reversed, a big time lag had been introduced into the Luftwaffe&#039;s ability to respond to Allied technology.  Germany was stuck in 1943 with a lot of planes that were a little too primitive to get into a tangle with the P-51s and P-47s and later Spitfires that finally began escorting bombers.  But those planes would likely have done fine in anti-infantry operations, while the ME-262 that should have handled the bomber escorts suffered from the delay and an attempt to divert it to ground support.

However, consider a more obscure story.  The USAAF was utterly committed to the B-17 because at some point the War Department had to commit to which weapons it would order every damn factory in America to produce.  I think this edict came in &#039;41.  Ironically, the P-51 was not part of that edict but it was so easy to mass produce ($50,000 each) that it got shoehorned in and saved the B-17s over Germany.  But unlike Germany, US plane development was never suspended, and Douglas was privately working on a radical new bomber called the B-42 Mixmaster that would have changed everything over Germany.  While the B-17 had become encrusted with extra turrets that slowed it down, the B-42 was a smaller torpedo-shaped plane with two counter-rotating props in the tail and two side-by-side bubble cockpits, aerodynamic and capable of 410 mph with an 8000 lb bomb load (the average B-17 load was only 5000).  But the USAAF had already committed, so it only bought a few prototypes, the first of which flew in &#039;44, too late to matter.

Since none of the B-42&#039;s parts were new (a pair of P-38 engines instead of the B-17&#039;s four thirsty radials), this plane could have been designed and put into production years earlier.  No German prop plane could overtake it in &#039;44.  If one was lost, that only meant three dead instead of thirteen.  We could have built more, and run them on less fuel.  Schweinfurt would have gotten bombed every week for the rest of the war.

In fact, the B-42 was the ancestor of modern bombers, along with the Arado Blitz and the Mosquito.  It was a sound concept, and it could have saved a lot of airmen from a horrible fate if it had gotten the priority of, say, the Manhattan Project.

Failing that, I think we could have accomplished almost as much just by building thousands of F-82 Twin Mustangs, which could carry 4000 lbs of bombs 1280 miles.  Imagine the nightmare those would be for the Luftwaffe.  But the idea for the F-82 came too late, though the parts were already available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@64:</p>
<p>There&#8217;s probably a lot of truth to the argument that we forced the Luftwaffe to defend factories instead of the thing it was really good at, tactical ground support.  But did we really understand that at the time, or did we just get lucky?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an example of how important the luck of good timing is.  In 1940, anticipating that he&#8217;d beat Britain with the weapons he had on hand, Hitler shut down a lot of warplane research.  By the time this was reversed, a big time lag had been introduced into the Luftwaffe&#8217;s ability to respond to Allied technology.  Germany was stuck in 1943 with a lot of planes that were a little too primitive to get into a tangle with the P-51s and P-47s and later Spitfires that finally began escorting bombers.  But those planes would likely have done fine in anti-infantry operations, while the ME-262 that should have handled the bomber escorts suffered from the delay and an attempt to divert it to ground support.</p>
<p>However, consider a more obscure story.  The USAAF was utterly committed to the B-17 because at some point the War Department had to commit to which weapons it would order every damn factory in America to produce.  I think this edict came in &#8217;41.  Ironically, the P-51 was not part of that edict but it was so easy to mass produce ($50,000 each) that it got shoehorned in and saved the B-17s over Germany.  But unlike Germany, US plane development was never suspended, and Douglas was privately working on a radical new bomber called the B-42 Mixmaster that would have changed everything over Germany.  While the B-17 had become encrusted with extra turrets that slowed it down, the B-42 was a smaller torpedo-shaped plane with two counter-rotating props in the tail and two side-by-side bubble cockpits, aerodynamic and capable of 410 mph with an 8000 lb bomb load (the average B-17 load was only 5000).  But the USAAF had already committed, so it only bought a few prototypes, the first of which flew in &#8217;44, too late to matter.</p>
<p>Since none of the B-42&#8242;s parts were new (a pair of P-38 engines instead of the B-17&#8242;s four thirsty radials), this plane could have been designed and put into production years earlier.  No German prop plane could overtake it in &#8217;44.  If one was lost, that only meant three dead instead of thirteen.  We could have built more, and run them on less fuel.  Schweinfurt would have gotten bombed every week for the rest of the war.</p>
<p>In fact, the B-42 was the ancestor of modern bombers, along with the Arado Blitz and the Mosquito.  It was a sound concept, and it could have saved a lot of airmen from a horrible fate if it had gotten the priority of, say, the Manhattan Project.</p>
<p>Failing that, I think we could have accomplished almost as much just by building thousands of F-82 Twin Mustangs, which could carry 4000 lbs of bombs 1280 miles.  Imagine the nightmare those would be for the Luftwaffe.  But the idea for the F-82 came too late, though the parts were already available.</p>
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		<title>By: super390</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38648</link>
		<dc:creator>super390</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 00:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38648</guid>
		<description>Since there&#039;s been so many replies since my last comment, I&#039;m going by broad topics:

On strategic bombing -

There were Americans who understood daylight bombing was inefficient.  A Strategic Survey was formed to try to calculate the weak points in the German economic system, the one factory that could be destroyed over and over again because everything else depended on what it produced.  That is why USAAF carried out suicidal attacks on the Schweinfurt ball bearing factory.  But the McClellans in the high command apparently couldn&#039;t stomach the horrible losses from hitting a target with a fully aware enemy.

The strategic bombing cult consisted of guys who read Douhet, who really wanted to terror-bomb civilians into submission.  Like Nobel before him, he thought the newest toy would make war too horrible to contemplate, but this proved to be one toy too early.

In later wars the USAF cult ran up against economies so primitive that there was no Schweinfurt, no one factory that really mattered to the agrarian system.  I&#039;ve heard it suggested that the bombing went on anyway because the commanders (in chief?) decided if they couldn&#039;t beat Vietnam, they could at least wreck it so badly that no other nation would ever dare defy US demands again.  Well, that wears off after a while...

Thank you, Korman, for recommending &quot;The Graveyard of the Fireflies&quot; (US title), a film that I can barely watch because it&#039;s so depressing, but probably as accurate as any account of what modern war is really about - the destruction of an opposing society at its very roots.

Civil War photos -

General Ben Butler looks as worthless as Burnside, and was.  Once I saw a photo in the Ken Burns series of a New York officer named &quot;Capt. Dafoe&quot;, and damned if he didn&#039;t look just like actor Willem Dafoe.  So keep him on the casting list for the next Civil War movie.

Generals versus businessmen - 

Miss Dolan, it&#039;s more like the US Army treats war as an industry, not a business.  It&#039;s inherent to a democracy that properly fears a professional military class, and avoids a large standing army.  An army of conscript citizen-soldiers is a broadsword, not a rapier, and it can only be used to smash skulls.  McClellan really was a businessman, from the then-sexy railroad industry, and he did a fine job of building the Army of the Potomac into a timetable-meeting machine.  But then he tried to use it as a rapier for a clean kill.  Grant, as any photo will show, was meant to wield a broadsword, and it was he who cast the United States Army into a mold that it cannot escape.  Our army won its great struggles with logistics and artillery.  Math and scheduling.  Since the Great Powers fighting wars before 1945 were all industrialized societies, they increasingly fought the way we were good at fighting. If the war doesn&#039;t fit that model, God help us. Naturally, the world of peoples who might potentially come into conflict with us (many for good reasons) increasingly refuses to give us a war that will fit our model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since there&#8217;s been so many replies since my last comment, I&#8217;m going by broad topics:</p>
<p>On strategic bombing -</p>
<p>There were Americans who understood daylight bombing was inefficient.  A Strategic Survey was formed to try to calculate the weak points in the German economic system, the one factory that could be destroyed over and over again because everything else depended on what it produced.  That is why USAAF carried out suicidal attacks on the Schweinfurt ball bearing factory.  But the McClellans in the high command apparently couldn&#8217;t stomach the horrible losses from hitting a target with a fully aware enemy.</p>
<p>The strategic bombing cult consisted of guys who read Douhet, who really wanted to terror-bomb civilians into submission.  Like Nobel before him, he thought the newest toy would make war too horrible to contemplate, but this proved to be one toy too early.</p>
<p>In later wars the USAF cult ran up against economies so primitive that there was no Schweinfurt, no one factory that really mattered to the agrarian system.  I&#8217;ve heard it suggested that the bombing went on anyway because the commanders (in chief?) decided if they couldn&#8217;t beat Vietnam, they could at least wreck it so badly that no other nation would ever dare defy US demands again.  Well, that wears off after a while&#8230;</p>
<p>Thank you, Korman, for recommending &#8220;The Graveyard of the Fireflies&#8221; (US title), a film that I can barely watch because it&#8217;s so depressing, but probably as accurate as any account of what modern war is really about &#8211; the destruction of an opposing society at its very roots.</p>
<p>Civil War photos -</p>
<p>General Ben Butler looks as worthless as Burnside, and was.  Once I saw a photo in the Ken Burns series of a New York officer named &#8220;Capt. Dafoe&#8221;, and damned if he didn&#8217;t look just like actor Willem Dafoe.  So keep him on the casting list for the next Civil War movie.</p>
<p>Generals versus businessmen &#8211; </p>
<p>Miss Dolan, it&#8217;s more like the US Army treats war as an industry, not a business.  It&#8217;s inherent to a democracy that properly fears a professional military class, and avoids a large standing army.  An army of conscript citizen-soldiers is a broadsword, not a rapier, and it can only be used to smash skulls.  McClellan really was a businessman, from the then-sexy railroad industry, and he did a fine job of building the Army of the Potomac into a timetable-meeting machine.  But then he tried to use it as a rapier for a clean kill.  Grant, as any photo will show, was meant to wield a broadsword, and it was he who cast the United States Army into a mold that it cannot escape.  Our army won its great struggles with logistics and artillery.  Math and scheduling.  Since the Great Powers fighting wars before 1945 were all industrialized societies, they increasingly fought the way we were good at fighting. If the war doesn&#8217;t fit that model, God help us. Naturally, the world of peoples who might potentially come into conflict with us (many for good reasons) increasingly refuses to give us a war that will fit our model.</p>
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		<title>By: joe-bob</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38634</link>
		<dc:creator>joe-bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2011 03:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38634</guid>
		<description>About WW2 heavy bombers...

1.  They became more effective once they figured out which targets to hit &amp; how to hit them 

2. But far more important, it was a strategic offense/tactical defense - like Longstreet wanted to do &amp; that the Germans did so well in WW1.  Heavy bombers compelled Germans to oppose them with their fighters, which were opposed by the US long range fighters.

That ground down German fighter strength, sapping away fighter cover from the eastern front but more importantly ensuring air superiority in the West so Allied tactical bombing could go on unopposed.  That was a big deal.  Germans with lots of experience in the East were shocked, stunned.  They said it was worse than the eastern front.  Modern combat operations were rendered essentially imposible on the German side.

Due to the fighter-bombers hitting bridges and harrassing therail &amp; roads, it took longer for reinforcements to get from the border of France to the fighting than it did to get from the Eastern front to the border of France. The fighter bombers had total freedom because of the heavy bomber campaign.  Had the Germans declined the engagements and hid/dispersed their fighters, maybe they could have made a real difference around d-day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About WW2 heavy bombers&#8230;</p>
<p>1.  They became more effective once they figured out which targets to hit &amp; how to hit them </p>
<p>2. But far more important, it was a strategic offense/tactical defense &#8211; like Longstreet wanted to do &amp; that the Germans did so well in WW1.  Heavy bombers compelled Germans to oppose them with their fighters, which were opposed by the US long range fighters.</p>
<p>That ground down German fighter strength, sapping away fighter cover from the eastern front but more importantly ensuring air superiority in the West so Allied tactical bombing could go on unopposed.  That was a big deal.  Germans with lots of experience in the East were shocked, stunned.  They said it was worse than the eastern front.  Modern combat operations were rendered essentially imposible on the German side.</p>
<p>Due to the fighter-bombers hitting bridges and harrassing therail &amp; roads, it took longer for reinforcements to get from the border of France to the fighting than it did to get from the Eastern front to the border of France. The fighter bombers had total freedom because of the heavy bomber campaign.  Had the Germans declined the engagements and hid/dispersed their fighters, maybe they could have made a real difference around d-day.</p>
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		<title>By: Kestrel</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38632</link>
		<dc:creator>Kestrel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38632</guid>
		<description>Amusing that cracker trash morons like drunktankdan think Libya will give two shits about America once they use their newfound democracy to elect an Islamist government in a landslide. Typical freeper fantasy wank.  Now shush little boy, and let the adults finish talking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amusing that cracker trash morons like drunktankdan think Libya will give two shits about America once they use their newfound democracy to elect an Islamist government in a landslide. Typical freeper fantasy wank.  Now shush little boy, and let the adults finish talking.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-ben-grierson-actual-hero/comment-page-2/#comment-38631</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exiledonline.com/?p=40633#comment-38631</guid>
		<description>What about gaddafi?  Come back, war nerd!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about gaddafi?  Come back, war nerd!</p>
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