Issue #01/56, January 14 - 27, 1999  

An exclusive eXile interview with Alexander Lukashenko
by Vlad Gudov

The President of Belarus avoids meeting with the Russian press. In 1997 and 1998, he only gave exclusive interviews to one Moscow newspaper and one TV program. Mr. Lukashenko himself explains his unwillingness to associate with foreign journalists as a result of previous interviews, in which he says that the meaning of his words and opinions was perverted.

We were able to meet with President Lukashenko at the end of November last year. The following is the result of our exclusive interview for the readers of the eXile.

Mr. President, what are Belarus's foreign policy priorities at this time?

Belarus bases its relations with other countries on the principles spelled out in our constitution--partnership and equality of rights. But not every country is ready to talk with us as equals--there are even those who prefer to dictate their will, to force their "rules of the game." How can there be partnership under such circumstances--the partnership of slave and master? For this reason we are forced to develop relations with those who are realistically interested, with those who see in us a like-minded friend. With those whose support and understanding we can be sure of. First of all, this means Russia and Ukraine. In the near future, perhaps, this will include Yugoslavia. It's easier for us to understand each other--after all, we all come from the same Slavic roots. We are connected by our shared moral-ethics and religious values, as well as our resilient traditions of partnership; decades of economic ties connect us. So in terms of our priorities, I'm not saying anything new.

What are your views on the prospects of the union between Russia and Belarus, of which you are currently the chairman. How could you influence the addition of Yugoslavia to this union?

We inevitably are returning to what we once had, to a certain extent--a council of economic cooperation. The spheres of influence on the international markets were carved out long ago. They aren't awaiting Russian, Belarussian or Yugoslavian goods there. The West sees us as merely a raw materials appendage and a market to push their goods on. For that reason we simply aren't left with a choice--only to develop our own markets, based on our own system of economic cooperation. I'm not calling for us to stop all trade with the West, to abolish hard currency accounts, and so on. But it is worth asking why we should we buy from them the same foodstuffs that we can produce by ourselves? Yes, and not only produce, but also light industrial goods. Whoever wants to, let them buy an expensive Japanese television, and not a Belarussian one. However, most people don't have that option. Moreover, such an economic union assumes that production will grow. This means more employment, and foodstuffs and industrial goods will inevitably be cheaper. After all, we can produce totally competitive goods. It's just that no one will allow us to compete on the Western markets. All that's left is our own. As for Yugoslavia, I don't see anything reprehensible or illogical. When the Polish nobility began to oppress the Ukrainian Cossacks, Bogdan Khmelnisky asked to join the Russian Empire. There was no choice: either find a protector, or face destruction. The same is happening today in Yugoslavia. I think there's a good chance that other countries will join our Union. This is natural and even, to a certain extent, inevitable.

If we're going to talk about the Belarussian economy, I want to call special attention to the fact that there was no way for the Russian crisis not to affect Belarus. Of course, we're doing everything possible to maintain the stability of the economic situation in our country, softening the effects of the Russian financial crisis. Nevertheless, we're noticing in Belarus a certain rise in prices for goods and foodstuffs. Certain members of our unions are trying to take advantage of the difficult situation for their own interests, increasing the tension and agitating people. However, the overwhelming majority of our citizens--healthy-minded people--not only don't support such initiatives, but on the contrary, strive for a common push to solve our difficulties and problems. This became evident once again on December 2nd, when a union demonstration and mass rally was planned. However, on the eve of the actions, after meeting with authorities, the union leaders voted to cancel the planned events. Beyond all doubt, they understood that demonstrations and mass rallies would be no more than a storm in a glass of water, since the majority of the population would not support them. Especially since, by means of of constructive dialogue with the leaders of the country, they already reached agreement on nearly all outstanding issues.

The results of the next presidential election in Russia will be critical for Belarus for several reasons. Who do you see as Russia's next president?

You're right, this election is not without significance to the Belarussian republic and its people. But you will certainly agree that to speak today about the next Russian president while there is still plenty of time before the elections, to size up this or that Russian politician would be, for me, rather tactless. In the runup to the elections, Russians can come to their own conclusions about this or that candidate. I am only entitled to hope that the people of Russia choose the most worthy candidate.

Some political analysts say that one of those seeking the post of president of Russia is you...

There's no reason to even discuss this issue. First, there isn't a legal basis that would allow me to run for the post of president of Russia. Second, my own term as president will still be in effect when the presidential election takes place in Russia, a fact that our opposition doesn't thirst for. To turn my back on those who have cast a vote for me--I can't do that. I don't have the moral right to do so. Never have I declared any intention to rule the Russian state. Probably, certain elements in your mass media have decided to scare your population by using me. It's a joke. As for what kind of leader am I, let them judge me by my actions and the situation in my country.

How do you view the policies of the previous and present Russian governments in terms of their relations with Belarus?

I believe that the appointment of Yevgeny Primakov as prime minister was occasioned by events themselves. The course of economic reform pursued by Gaidar and Chubais in Russia was irresponsible from beginning to end. It was anti-people to its very core, and the present crisis is a direct consequence of those "market reforms." The monetarists theorized, and the people suffered: after all they had no say in the matter, they were crushed by the wheels of ill-considered economic innovations. The people grumbled, but endured. But would such patience last forever? Yeltsin decided logically: their endurance was waning. It was time to make a radical decision, to urgently change something, above all the relationship, the approach to things.

In general, Victor Chernomyrdin and Yevgeny Primakov are people of similar experience, from difficult positions. Chernomyrdin's problem was that from the beginning the wrong people attached themselves to him. And he had no choice but to adhere to the rules of the game and work with them. Whereas Primakov was given carte-blanche: the chance to form his own cabinet. Therefore, they can't pressure him the way they did Chernomyrdin. Times have changed now that the crisis has arrived. Primakov was able to recruit a team of government

Alexander Grigorievich Lukashenko was born in 1954 in the village of Kopys in the Vitebsk oblast of Belarus. In 1975 he completed his studies at the Mogilevsky Pedological Institute and the Belorussian agro-economic academy as a teacher of history and an "economist-organizer" of agricultural production. 1971 - 1975: Komsomol secretary at middle school No. 1 in the town of Shkov. 1975 - 1977: political instructor in an army unit in Brest. 1977 - 1978: secretary of the Komsomol wing overseeing food trade in the city of Mogilev. 1978 - 1980: director of the "Znanie" ("Knowledge") organization in Shklov. 1980 - 1982: deputy commander of an army company in charge of political propaganda. 1982 - 1983: deputy chairman of the Udarnik collective farm in the Shklovsky region. 1983 - 1985: deputy director of a construction materials factory in Shklov. 1985 - 1987: secretary of the Partkom (Communist Party ideology organ) of the Lenin collective farm in the Shkovsky Region. 1987 - 1994: director of the Gorodets state farm in the Shklovsky Region, a deputy in the Belarussian parliament, and chairman of the commission set up to fight corruption. 1994: elected President of Belarus. Interests: Lukashenko freely admits that he often and enthusiastically engages in sports activities, since exercise helps to ease the psychological burdens of nervous stress. The President enjoys driving cars, and he loves to travel without bodyguards or fellow-travelers.

officials, people who, as they now say, are "unconnected" and eager to work for their country in a realistic way instead of on the basis of theoretical calculations worked out by Harvard-trained economists.

I don't think that the change in the Russian government will result in a foreign policy that will be negative for Belarus. And as for economic ties, we expect them to become even more solid. We were lucky to be able to keep practically all our industries afloat and one way or another to take care of all our workers. I always repeat to directors: let the people do something, if machines are not needed--let them convert to producing consumer goods. Just produce something for which there is realistic demand. But I can boast of this: we still have not converted a single major industry. I'll go even further and say that MAZ, BelAZ and many other of the industrial giants of our economy have maintained steady three-shift work schedules. Workers' salaries may not be very large--the equivalent of anywhere from 60 to 200 US dollars--but they are paid on time. There has been no downsizing, no firing without support. Moreover, in our factories you'll find all kinds of "Help Wanted" ads posted around the entranceways.

For this reason, I often speak with government officials about the need to produce own specialists. We need homegrown well-educated people. Luckily for us in Belarus, we were able to maintain the state system of higher and mid-level specialized education. Of course, there are privately run institutions, but they are a mere appendage of the basic system, and not the other way around. We intend to develop a special government program in the very near future--to give students special government stipends, offer the best specialists free housing--in short, to make education prestigious.

The situation with the residence of the American ambassador in Minsk is still brewing...

Personally, I don't think there's anything strange about it. The residence simply needed to be renovated, and the whole situation was blown out of proportion by our unscrupulous opposition and certain Moscow journalists for their own selfish reasons. This incident did not change our political-economic relations with the United States, nor could it possibly do so.

What do you have to say about the cessation of activities by the Soros Foundation in Belarus?

I want to say right away that I'm not against the activities of foreign funds operating on our territory. With Soros, it's a private matter. The security organs have the fundamental right and sufficient information to impose sanctions. Someone didn't like that. But it must be legal. If a law is broken in Belarus, then even Soros can't be saved.

What hidden dangers are there in Belarus with respect to Catholics and Orthodox Christians? Can or should the President play a mediating role?

In Belarus we live by the principle of religious tolerance. The Constitution plays the role of arbiter. History has given us a land in which Catholics and Orthodox live side by side. Officially, three percent of our population is Jewish. Muslims comprise less than one percent of the population. But no one oppresses anyone else--freedom of conscience is guaranteed by our constitution. Even if it so happens that the overwhelming majority of our population is Orthodox Christian, this doesn't give the opposition the right to say that the Orthodox have violently overtaken the government. I answer such people in this way: on Independence Square, by the left arm of the statue of Lenin--there stands a cathedral. In the most visible place. On Freedom Square, also in central Minsk, there is the main cathedral of the Orthodox Church. Incidentally, we also have Baptists, Seventh-Day Adventists, and scores of other s living within our borders.

In Belarus there never was such oppression, and I am certain there won't be conflict, not between Catholics and Orthodox or involving other, smaller denominations. So the question itself just is not relevant.

The people of Belarus are simply wonderful. They are patient and they love to work. They aren't afraid of difficulties. During the war they held out, just as they are persevering today. But if they sensed that I had cheated them on my campaign promises, the people would simply begin to shun me, and I would no longer be president. But the people continue to believe in me.

Is there the potential for a language problem in Belarus as, for example, in Ukraine, where there are two official state languages?

We also have two official languages. Everyone understands each other, and there's no reason to believe that if we speak Russian or Belarussian, one of the languages will die out from lack of use. The Belarussian language, like Russian, is taught throughout the country at the middle-school level. Newspapers, books, and plays are published in both languages. There are certain people, very few in number, who always try to play the language card in a very questionable political game. They speak about discrimination in terms of the state language. But all these insinuations are simply lies. Anyone who so desires can come to us and see that the Belarussian and Russian languages are both in use without discrimination. I myself speak both languages with equal fluency.

Language problems arise when one language is forcibly used and another is banned, when one culture victimizes another. We are free to enjoy the fruits of Belarussian and Russian culture. As a result, we are even more blessed spiritually.

As I understand it, in Ukraine the language problem is also much exaggerated. There is a certain political force whipping up nationalist hysteria by making charges of language discrimination. However, I get along fine with the President of Ukraine, Leonid Kuchma, without a translator. In Russian, of course. And there's no need for this to be done in secret.

Your conflicts with the opposition have resulted in international resonance. Why, in your opinion, is there so much bitter conflict, and how can a compromise be reached?

The question really is whether or not a compromise with the opposition is necessary. And is there really even an opposition? In any case, there is no "bitter" resistance to speak of.

After all what does it mean, this phrase "Belarussian opposition"? There are a few dozen people who created a political base for themselves after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Everyone shouted "Down with the USSR!" Those who shouted the loudest wound up in Parliament. By then the time to destroy has ended; the time to create arrived. But these people only knew how to destroy. What else to do then but find an enemy to attack? So they found me. But you'll no doubt agree that every society has those who resist authority. That's all this opposition is. You said you were in Minsk on November 7th. Did you see the "demonstrations of the numerous opposition"?

No.

Me, neither. Yet many news agencies, including Russian ones, reported just that. It would be interesting to know where they found them. Among the demonstrators supporting the present government there was no opposition: they were normal people, divided up in groups by regions, oblasts, factories. There was a closed group of communists, 100 people in all. Alternative mass gatherings simply didn't take place! The demonstrators marched along Prospekt Skorina; then the people quietly and peacefully dispersed and went home. There couldn't possibly be a demonstration by the "opposition." The people don't believe in them. Our so-called opposition in reality only represents themselves. Someone somewhere is paying them, of course, with the demand that they do something with that money, that they somehow bring attention to themselves. It's a shame that the press often plays to these people's tune.

The role of personality in history is indisputable. In terms of character and belief, what sort of personality do you relate to? What do you value and what can't you stand in people?

I won't speak about myself--I'll let people and my actions speak about me. Of course, the role of personality is indisputable. Let's say that a certain Lukashenko won the presidential election. The West slept through it. Well, they think, let him blow off some steam, he'll calm down. Now they're forced to think, how to unseat him before his term ends, because there's no way to pull Belarus into the "civilized European union." There is an example of personality and history.

In terms of what I value in people: orderliness, honesty, straight-forward traits. I can't stand base actions, although they are common and I forgive people: humans are weak.

Prime Minister of Belarus Sergei Ling recently mentioned that "in Moscow there are those who plot to scuttle the integration of the two countries." In your speeches you have never once touched on this theme. Who exactly do you have in mind?

Those who are opposed to integration make no secret of their activities. They're plotting actively and openly. They're working on instigating: they place "zakaznye articles" in the Russian press, where they'll try to slander me, to stir things up in Belarus. They're spreading lies in the highest circles, trying to ruin our relations with specific financial and business groups. In general, they're using various petty, dirty tricks. As a rule, they consist of those of our former opposition that has settled in Moscow.

That's how a negative portrait of Lukashenko arose in the Russian press. He cites Hitler, he's a tyrant! Hitler? In Belarus?! Such a thing is unimaginable. Our people, of course, doesn't believe this slander, but in Russia, it's possible to instill some doubts...

There are other enemies--more serious ones. They are pursuing specific geopolitical and financial goals. I won't say any more about them--the situation doesn't allow for it. I will say one thing: the West funds them, gives them a lot of money.

Why did you fire so many higher officials this December?

Any change in faces in a government is accompanied by a number of suggestions, rumors, and speculations. Although in fact the true reasons turn out to be far simpler. As is well known, some didn't deserve their places. Society is falling apart, conditions, functions and various spheres of life are changing. It's completely logical and natural that such a time means new demands on the government. The government must consistently improve. In my reorganization, my first goal was to achieve the utmost effectiveness in the running of government affairs, concentrating on strengthening the priorities in the direction of domestic and foreign policy. For us today that means export, agriculture, and construction. A reorganization of the state apparatus, of course, involves changing faces. Thus, not long ago we united three services, those responsible for foreign policy, foreign trade, and integration. A new structure was created, and a young professional with a high degree of education, well-prepared for such work, was named to head it. As for those who are leaving their posts, as a rule, these are highly qualified, skilled people who have done much for the state, and they are not people whom we are abandoning. We are offering them other posts in which they can be of use to society.

What does family mean to you? Have you kept your friends from your youth?

The meaning of family is a very personal one. But I'm a government person. For that reason I'm not going to expatiate on that theme--I have no right to. Of course, I have a wife and two wonderful sons, and I love them all. But Alexander Lukashenko isn't only a family man, he's a government figure and he doesn't have the right to use his family in such a way. For that reason, I have a way of doing things: family and work are kept separate.

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