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MSNBC: Mark Ames and Yasha Levine
Broke the Koch Brothers' Takeover of America
Fatwah / February 20, 2009
By Mark Ames

Although it’s more fun to trash the villains and suckers who dominate our dying empire, if the rare hero appears and says something courageous and decent, then it becomes our professional duty to salute her. That hero is Ohio congresswoman Marcy Kaptur (D-Toledo), who recently called for distressed homeowners to squat in their houses and fuck off the banks who have fucked over the country.

Here’s Kaptur speaking like the only true representative of the people out there:

“I’m saying to them possession is 99 percent of the law; you stay in your house,” Miss Kaptur said yesterday, continuing a crusade she started several weeks ago in Congress and CNN picked up Thursday night.

“I say to the American people, you be squatters in your own homes. Don’t you leave,” she said during a speech in Congress earlier this month.

She said she believes that many so-called predatory and subprime loans – those made to borrowers who did not qualify for a conventional mortgage – may have been illegal.

She urged homeowners not to panic and leave their home just because they receive a foreclosure notice from their lender, and she said they should demand that the mortgage-holder produce a mortgage audit.

Naturally, she’s been targeted by the Republican rightwing for destruction. This kind of talk is way too dangerous to be tolerated–after all, for 30 years or more now, the rich have grown used to plundering a passive middle-class and working-class America. So guess who the Republicans are considering running against Kaptur in 2010? Yep, the biggest weapon in their pseudo-populist arsenal, none other than child-molester-lookalike Joe The Plumber. Already there’s a draft-Joe-the-Plumber website concocted by a group of elitist Amherst Republicans.

“Hi there son, want some candy? Come inside my van, I’ll show you what I’ve got.”

Meanwhile, as expected, the Republican rightwing and their real estate sponsors are trying to make Kaptur’s pro-people proposal seem crazy, which is usually how they characterize anything that doesn’t enrich the plutocracy. Their local spokesman/attack dog is realtor Jim Moody, a Republican running for mayor of Toledo:

“I think those are dangerous statements,” Mr. Moody said. “What’s she going to say when the sheriff comes and puts all their stuff on the street when they didn’t leave because Marcy Kaptur said they could stay and become a squatter?

“I think she’s clueless. This is goofy. Of course, the attorneys file the proper paperwork,” Mr. Moody said.

Here’s one example of something Kaptur could say, Jim: “You, sheriff, are fired, because I write the fucking laws here.” Or better yet, “Okay, since I write the laws, I decree that everyone who loses their house should squat in Jim Moody’s master bedroom. How you like them apples, fuckhead?”

Incidentally, you can find Moody’s personal cellphone here on this ad for his real estate company, Flex Realty. The number, just in case, is 419-392-4444. Call him and tell him you’re really interested in buying one of the shitty overpriced houses he’s listing. Tell him you’ll meet him in 5 minutes at a house that’s 25 minutes away, so that he’ll total his car trying to close a deal. Or tell him you’ll meet him at 4:30 a.m. because you’re an early riser and you only respect a man who does business at that ungodly hour.

Mark Ames is the author of Going Postal: Rage, Murder and Rebellion from Reagan’s Workplaces to Clinton’s Columbine. You can reach him at

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Add your own

  • 1. aleke  |  February 20th, 2009 at 12:40 pm


  • 2. Distressed homeowner  |  February 20th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    That’s no good, the government owns the banks. Or at least is about to.

  • 3. Jason Wolfe  |  February 20th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Congresswoman’s advice is good. Banks often don’t have the paperwork to back up their claims. Keep demanding paper, most of the banks lost it. Keeping paper preserved is expensive, and in the era of deregulation wasn’t really required.

  • 4. 28  |  February 20th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    She’s right, this is totally unprecedented legally. Get a fucking court order, get a camcorder and wave it in the warrant officer’s face when he shows up. Sure, he’ll hit you with a tazer–and lose his job go into default on his bills and get evicted from his subprime “home” a three months later

    oh, and be sure to put that Church of the Subgenius “My other god is nailed to a stick” sticker up on your door beforehand, too

  • 5. 28  |  February 20th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    the above comment by one “28” is absolutely not to be considered legal advice

  • 6. Dammerung  |  February 20th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    When the Federal Empire nationalizes the banks, will it become a federal crime to be unable to pay your mortgage? Food for thought.

  • 7. DammerDUNG  |  February 20th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Typical right wing moron horseshit from Dahmer Dung. Yes the great Federal Empire! Oh, no! Just when the Federal Government might, just might, theoretically work for the American public — as opposed the spreading it’s legs like $10 crack whore for every corporate interest that comes along — it’s suddenly a “Federal Empire”.

    Go tickle Joe the Plumber’s balls with your nose you right-wing fag.

  • 8. Miguel  |  February 20th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    This website has hit the bottom so hard I don’t know why I even bother coming (oh yeah, I know why, because the War Nerd is the only thing still worth salvaging).

    Are you trying to become the second coming of Michael Moore, Mark? Because if you are, you still have plenty of buckets of KFC to go.

  • 9. Dammerung  |  February 20th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    >>it’s suddenly a “Federal Empire”.

    Weird – I hated Reagan, I hated Bush the Elder, I hated Clinton, I hated Bush the Lesser, now I hate Obama – no “suddenly” about it.

    The Federal Government has a Constitutional mandate to regulate interstate commerce, sign treaties, organize national defense, and declare war.

    Everything else, from the Dept of Education, Energy, Homeland Security, CIA, NSA, the whole grand lot of it – is totally and utterly illegal and should be abolished.

    Bush the Lesser presided over the biggest expansion of government spying and foreign interventionism of any president ever. Obama is already trying to top it in his first term.

  • 10. Snarky  |  February 21st, 2009 at 12:22 am

    I actually loved the article. Let’s recall that one little thing called the Civil Rights Movement. Or Ghandi in India. Or Americans driving 80MPH on the freeway. What’s that one thing they all have in common? Oh yeah, they’re breaking moronic laws! A law, is a law only so long as it can be enforced. If people stay in their house, barricade the doors and offer passive resistance to the cops, and hold out like that for a few weeks, then the eviction laws WILL be changed.

    When one person cannot pay the banks, it is that person’s problem. When an entire class of people cannot pay the banks, it is the banks’ problem. When one person breaks the law, it is that person’s problem. When an entire people break the law, the law dissapears. It’s just that simple.

    The best way to change society, (and save your hard earned house that the banks are trying to swindle you out of) is to engage in passive resistance. If that fails, then shit must hit the fan. Oh and Miguel, since you are so much against change, can you fetch me my whip, tie yourself to a pole and bare your back. You are most likely a Mestizo, which under an old system of laws means I get to whip you whenever I feel like it. And you must assist me. Ain’t that fun?

  • 11. Allen  |  February 21st, 2009 at 1:19 am

    Haha, “Michael Moore”. If he didn’t exist it would be necessary to invent him, no?

    Without his like to play boogie man, who would be around to make Americans feel good about defending their daddy’s values? The “American way”, son!

    The “media left” are the worst collective boogie man in history; a more powerless and ineffectual bunch of blowhards whose only real purpose is to be demonized for their stupidy could not easily be found.

    Beating that hollow straw man will not suffice to keep people placated in times like these.


    “ReSpeKt the banks; them people worked hard to be Betr than U.” …

  • 12. Snarky  |  February 21st, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Yeah, let’s abolish the Department of Education. That worked so well for Greece, not like they had mass demonstrations and were on the verge of anarchy. Oh wait, they were! While I may respect some Libertarians, those wanting to abolish the Dept. of Education are just dumb fucks.

    My problem is that Federal Government spends $711 billion on “defense” over half of it to Halliburton-like companies as kickbacks, and only spends $60 billion on education. “The good news is that the US Government creates jobs. The bad news is that they’re all in the infantry!” (Yes, Marines have infantry too.)

  • 13. Ashcroft  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Article needs Moody’s real estate office email

  • 14. Kevin  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Miguel- This website has hit the bottom? You’re comparing Ames to Michael Moore? Jesus you don’t know anything about this paper or Russia or a fucking thing. The only thing that has hit bottom is the creativity and internationalism of the commenters (mine included, I don’t live in Russia anymore either). I’ve been reading this paper since 1997 and Ames is the only person in western media who predicted the 1998 Russian bank default and subsequent crisis, while American bankers, with their superior intellect and typical American optimistic belief that the good times would always roll, lost everything. And they deserved to. At least the Russians finally had the good sense to tell them to fuck off and leave them alone after eight years of shitty advice. He’s right about this American crisis too. You wouln’t know that if you keep jerking off to conservative fags like Limbaugh.

  • 15. Slartybartfast  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    You make some good points Snarky, I don’t think the American sheeple have the guts for that though.

  • 16. Dammerung  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    >>While I may respect some Libertarians, those wanting to abolish the Dept. of Education are just dumb fucks.

    Why do you believe the Federal Government has the expertise to educate children? Congress voting on what to teach kids – great idea!

    Schools are a government run indoctrination camp pure and simple. I didn’t learn to read or write at school, or add or subtract either. When I got to university, the first two years were essentially dedicated to forcing you to unlearn all the lies, equivocations, and misinformation that is fed to children the first 13.

  • 17. geo8rge  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    Wee problem with your plan, property taxes. Property in the land of the free has 2 mortgages. One owed to the bank, that in theory can be paid off, and one owed to the government, which never seems to go away no matter what you pay. Mr Police man (technically Sheriff) really hates it when people are hanging around that are not paying his salary. In particular the local school district would prefer if people with children but not incomes leave.

    Additionally there is the matter of maintenance. People who bought mini mansions simply cannot afford the upkeep, and taking on boarders is out of the question due to zoning laws. You want to see Americans stand up and fight, violate a zoning law MF-er.

    Finally many (but not all) of these people moved into these places because they figured they would be able to make a quick buck flipping. When that fell through they just left. Why live in an expensive house that is not near where you work or have familly, where everyone hates you?

  • 18. Snarky  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Have the guts for what? Americans love being couch potatoes, and here, all they have to do is to stay in their fucking homes that the bank is trying to jack. Keep in mind that no one can forcefully enter your home, as long as you’re inside, without either a warrant, or comitting a crime. And a warrant cannot be for eviction.

    They can notify you for eviction, but it is upto you to leave voluntarily. They cannot shoot you, and if someone’s dragging you out, have a camera and send it to youtube. With enough pissed off people, something like a march can start. They evict me from my house, fine I’ll start blocking traffic. One person’s laughable, 100 people is scary. The only question here is this: “Do Americans have enough guts to protect their property? Do Americans have enough guts not to pee their pants at the sign of a taser? Will Americans stand up for their rights, or be relegated to the level of Chinese peasants?” I think Americans have those guts, but Americans just haven’t been pissed off enough. Sad part is that by the time Americans do get pissed off enough, they’ll be tilling a rice paddy.

  • 19. Solon  |  February 23rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Mark, wherever you live now just doesn’t seem to be very inspiring to you. Why not relocate to Ukraine. You may argue that what is happening in the US right now is so much more important, but it just doesn’t work. We all know this stuff. Or if we wanted to know about it we would just look it up ourselves. I am in no mood for that cheap moral outrage. If you take this so personally just go and kill someone to set an example. Or go to Ukraine and take solace in the even greater misery of others. It will even suit your taste in women (and their currency collapsed as well).

  • 20. Snarky  |  February 23rd, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Dammerung, you got a better idea? Not teaching kids at all? Yeah, that’ll have stunning results, like producing terror cells, just like they do in Saudi Arabia. Everyone’s entitled to education, whether you like it or not. And I doubt private investors are going to cough up money for an education system, and religious schools aren’t going to be able to educate so many kids. Hence you need the government, because some education is better then no education at all.

    Solon, there is no cheap moral outrage here. Ames is praising Nancy Kaptur and telling Americans to preserve their private property.

    Don’t you people ever read stuff, like Constitution? Say the Bill of Rights? Say the 4th Amendment: “The Right of the people to be secure in their persons, HOUSES, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall NOT be violated, and NO Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, SUPPORTED by Oath or affirmation, and particularly descibing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” Is cheating you out of your house reasonable? Hell no, then the government has no right to take it away, it’s in the damn Constitution, the Law of the Land. Seriously, if Americans don’t read their own Constitution, ROFL, just ROFL. Just sad.

    Now the government can take away your house if it has to build something, like a military base, but you MUST BE COMPENSATED for it, with, you guessed it, either another house or its monetary value.

    Ok kids, now go and re-read the Bill of Rights. There’s a reason that thing’s in the Constitution. Go and read, what’re you waiting? Google it. Not hard to find.

  • 21. unger  |  February 25th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    snarky: And public education is in the Constitution …where? Come now.

    You’re fooling yourself – or perhaps haven’t spent much time in Red State America – if you think that public education is keeping Americans from turning into the Taliban. The sorry fact of the matter is that the more the government has involved itself in education, the less literate we’ve become. The official statistics are bad enough, but there is a better method of comparison: look at the culture. Read de Tocqueville’s description of the level of public discourse, and try to imagine him saying such things about us now. Repeat along any timeframe you like, and if you can come to the conclusion that public education has done anything but mass-produce semi-literate cubicle workers and consumers – ‘human resources’ – like it was designed to do (you would do well to read John Taylor Gatto’s ‘The Underground History of American Education’), well, I hope you like the future, because you’ll surely get more of what you’re after.

  • 22. Snarky  |  February 25th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    Interesting how you already admit that education does work in Blue States, and shifting you argument to the Red States. The first thing to keep in mind though, is that Texas and South Carolina don’t represent all of the Red States. Secondly, most of the Framers of the Constitution were educated. Education falls in that little line in the Constitution that freaks out Libertarians so much, they actually believe that the Preamble isn’t part of the Constitution. No need to read the introduction to the story, just start with chapter one, doesn’t that make understanding the book easier? Then again Libertarians aren’t huge fans of seatbelt requirements either.

    It falls under “promote the General Welfare and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity”. In order to actually do that, you need education. Now public education in the US blows. So does that mean the US should remove it? If something sucks, it must be removed, not improved? Cause early scientific experiments in Europe sucked. I mean throwing infected meat into wells and seeing if the peasants got sick from dirking that water… Should Europe have stopped discovering science? I mean, come on!

    Nor do Libertarians offer a way to educate the public, without schools. Thus if you were born poor, you stay poor, cause unless you’re a genius like Will Hunting, no fucking way are you getting a private education. And public education works. UC Berkeley is a public school. Anyone arguing that UC Berkeley should be closed, because it fails to educate its students? Anyone?

    Unger, you are just promoting the same mantra of the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer. But, like the Economist, New York Times and CNN, you are doing it in a much craftier way. According to your theory, if I’m poor, I shouldn’t be educated, cause that would be the end result of your proposal. No wonder ex-Neocons are now becoming Libertarians.

  • 23. unger  |  February 25th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    snarky: Did I say anything at all about education being better in the blue states? Did I give even the slightest hint that I ‘admitted’ that education staved off Talibanism in the blue states, or otherwise ‘worked’ at all? That’s a big fat reading comprehension fail. When trying to defend public education, you probably shouldn’t illustrate my point for me.

    A lesson in logic follows.

    A: “If people are state-educated, they won’t be Taliban-like.”
    B: “Nonsense. Here are state-educated people who are Taliban-like.”
    A: “So? Here are state-educated people who aren’t Taliban-like. I win.”

    A’s second statement misses the point of dispute – strangely enough, over his own claim in his first statement, a proposition of the form ‘if X, then !Y’. B’s reply to that claim, ‘here’s a set that is X and Y’, is, if true, a valid refutation. A’s counter completely ignored B’s counterclaim. It’s along the lines of:

    A: All whites are non-racist.
    B: Here’s David Duke; he’s white and he’s racist.
    A: Yes, well, here’s Keith Olbermann; he’s white and he’s non-racist. Therefore all whites are non-racist.

    Logic class dismissed. Moving on to political science…

    If the general welfare clause is intended to give the government powers not enumerated in the Constitution, then why even bother writing the rest of the Constitution? Boredom? Perhaps they were just showing some of the nifty things the government could do? You should sue your publik skool for malpractice. Preambles are actually a pretty common literary and oratorical technique, wherein an author gives a general outline of his thoughts before elucidating them in detail. Thus, in a nutshell: ‘We wrote this thing to promote the general welfare. The following is a list of what it can do towards that end.’ And Amendment X drills home the point as plainly as anyone could want: there is no point reserving non-enumerated powers to the states or people if the general welfare clause is anything but that sort of preview.

    Regarding improving education: wholly aside from the constitutional issue, I note, once again, that practical literacy has fallen as education spending has risen – and this not over a short time, but over a century. Again, ‘si monumentum requiris’ and all that, though you didn’t dispute it in your last post. Correlation does not prove causation, of course, but that doesn’t mean it’s as batshit insane as you suggest to question whether the government is capable of doing the job – particularly given that we were not illiterate hicks before public education.

    And …seat belts? What the hell do seat belts have to do with anything? And why is it a bad idea to Darwinize people too stupid to wear them? Unless you subsidize their medical care – which you might – they hurt nobody but themselves. Take some responsibility for your life.

    …which applies to education, too. Good Will Hunting? What, are you the typical American – blue or red – who reads perhaps a single whodunit a year, who lacks even a caveman’s desire to claw himself out of the mud and gape at the stars? I hope not. Such people exist; they may even be most people. But I see no reason to believe that forcing the unwanted thoughts of their betters upon them will help them: judging from eight years of Dubya, the election of Our Lord And Savior Jesus H. Obama, the popularity of ‘reality’ telescreen, the insipid and still-not-quite-shattered popular belief that housing and stocks ‘always go up’, the popular delusion that a happy land of strip malls that’s sixty trillion dollars in debt (counting unfunded mandates) can be anything but fucked beyond repair…I could continue for pages…no, it hasn’t helped them one bit. I see no reason to believe that forcing personal responsibility on them once more could do any worse.

  • 24. Anonymous  |  February 26th, 2009 at 3:35 am

    Dammerung says he hated W’s expansion of government power, but from 2000 to 2008, I seem to remember a deafening silence from all those straight middle aged rural midwestern white guys who talk about guns, states rights, Waco, Ruby Ridge, the UN, and FEMA. Do you all vote Republican, too? Or just not vote? Why should we keep taking you all seriously as commentators or even as coherent thinkers when you say you hate all government, but only say it when Democrats are in power?

  • 25. unger  |  February 26th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    anon@3:35: Deafening silence? Or were you just too deaf and dumb to listen to anything but CNN and the two Respectable Big Government Views? Don’t be a moron. If CNN doesn’t give, say, Ralph Nader (to say nothing of those more radical or principled) more than thirty seconds of airtime a month, it’s reasonable to expect that it doesn’t do much better for the libertarians – especially the non-Randroids, who do not spontaneously orgasm upon hearing ‘Who Is John Galt?’ But we were out there.

    When we hated Reagan and Bush I, we were ‘left wing radicals’; when we hated Slick Willie (for the same reasons, charmingly enough) we were ‘right wing radicals’; when we hated Dubya (again for the same reasons), we were ‘left’ again; now guess what we are. And throughout that whole time, our position never changed. Why? Because we take seriously a very basic rule of human decency that the rest of you *ought* to know: leave other people’s shit alone and keep your goddamn hands to yourself. We can’t fathom what’s so hard about this, and we fucking hate thieves no matter how rich or poor they are. And if you’d paid attention to the past half-century of libertarianism, you’d know that we actually have spent most of our time yelling about the ones whose gang colors are navy-pinstripe suits. Don’t blame us for your ignorance; for damned sure don’t blame us for your obstinacy.

  • 26. Snarky  |  February 26th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Wow. Unger you fail at basic reading comprehension. You are like those people diplaying the “Get a brain morans” sign, or the “We Dun Need No Edukashun”.

    First off moron, or as you prefer, moran – who in the US is Taliban-like? Taliban like means that they kill people, treat women like shit, and enjoy slaughtering civillians. While there are certain elements of American Society that like that, such as your allies the Neocons, most Americans haven’t fallen that low, but it is interesting to show us how you view Americans, as worthless trash that can be turned into money. What’s your campaign slogan Unger: “vote for me, I say you’re trash!” – is that it?

    I guess Unger, you are such a failure that you cannot even deduce basic logic. Every society will have masochists, and hence Taliban-like members. Education, even state-education, reduces that number. And you have yet to offer an alternative, or are you one of those who doesn’t offer alternatives, other than “we don’t really need anything but Blackwater”? Care to offer a working, credible alternative?

    Have you ever heard of umm, uh, geez – sequels? A Preamble was meant to STATE THE PURPOSES OF THE CONSTITUTION, THE VALUES WITHIN IT! The clauses are also direct laws that the Government can use. Aside from the direct laws, there are also indirect laws. Where does it say that the government should provide jails? Or are we killing shoplifters now? It was so BASIC, that it DIDN’T NEED TO BE SAID! Jefferson, whom I’m told the Libertarians liked, donated his entire library to use by the American population, and yet Libertarians will argue that Jefferson was against public libraries. Sad.

    Also, prior to public education, most people were illiterate hicks. You are welcome to provide your statistics and I’ll show you mine, but wait, Unger doesn’t look at statistics. Unger hate publik edukashun with a passion.

    And Amendment X can be interpreted as the states having full powers to spend money on public education. Care to counter that? Oh wait, you cannot.

    As for seatbelts, have you thought about kids? Who might think it’s cool to drive without them. Or is the driving age moving upto 18? Wait, did I just place the words Unger and thought in the same sentence? Silly me.

    As for the housing crash, if the US Media wasn’t so profit driven and bribed by certain peopled who made a killing off of the bailout, 1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS dissapeared, maybe, had the media been regulated at least in so far as preventing six CEOs control 90% of it, maybe then the US Media would’ve warned Americans, and uhh geez, think Americans would’ve pulled out of the stock market, or made safer investments, had they known? Ya think?! Unregulated Media leads to Corporate Corruption. The Government shouldn’t tell the Media what to say, but the Government should prevent six companies from being the “Voice of America” and killing off (financially) most of the competition.

    And Good Will Hunting was a great movie that showed that talents and geniuses are left in the dirt. You had a guy with the brain of Einstein working as a janitor, and only the public system of education pulled him out. You guys saw how Unger freaked out on that one.

    And the UC (University of California System) works wonderfully. It’s public education at its finest. Shhh, don’t tell Unger, he thinks we should close UC Berkeley.

    And Unger, if you want to live in a society, you have to follow its rules, or rebel. All you do is just yap and insult. Really, really sad and pathetic. You have spend most of your time yelling, now how about getting some work done?

    As for Libertarian Armies, they got pwned by spearmen. Just look up Minerva, that’s where the Libertarians find and claim an island, and then half-naked men with spears come on canoes and force them off. Libertarian ideas anyone? And Unger, please stop yelling.

  • 27. unger  |  February 27th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Why bother arguing with you? You’re under the delusions that…just going down the list in that steaming turd you call a post…

    1: the primary noteworthiness of the Taliban is that it spent all its time slaughtering civilians, beating up women, and blowing shit up…you’re probably the sort of idiot who thinks that the most noteworthy aspect of National Socialism is that it doesn’t like Jews…

    2: ‘Keep your hands off other people’s shit’ libertarians are the allies of ‘Two Cheers for Capitalism’ and ‘An End To Evil’ neo-cons…not that I imagine you’ve even heard of either book, much less given much thought to their significance…

    3: State education can never be (and certainly is not now) used to create dumbed-down fanatics…ah, but nobody would ever try to teach anything you think is untrue; the thought never occurs to anyone of your ilk that someday centralized power will pass to your enemies…

    4: Amendment X, which, to anyone whose educators were not guilty of malpractice, reserves all powers not delegated to the national government for the States or people, has intelligible meaning even if all powers are, as you insist, delegated to the national government…further comment is unnecessary…

    5: I argued that the Constitution prohibits the several states from independently educating (or not) as they will – admittedly, not that I think the states ought to…stupid illiterate fool…

    6: Libertarians see Jefferson the same way half the country sees Obama – i.e. he can do no wrong…which is why you see so many libertarians buying ropes and whips for the day we can get blacks back to picking cotton on the plantations, and why we all love the Embargo Act of – why bother with a year; you haven’t heard of it anyway, why we love Indian ‘resettlement’, and why you’ll never hear a libertarian say that maybe Jefferson shouldn’t have bought something that not only did he have no authorization to buy, but wasn’t France’s to sell…

    7: Humanity is furthered by insulating stupid people from the consequences of their idiocy…basically the ideology behind the bailouts – not that you would recognize that…

    8: American media is unregulated…I submit this as proof that you’ve never made the slightest entrepreneurial venture in your life, since if you had, you’d understand just how thoroughly regulated all business is – and maybe you’d also wonder if there’s anything else in the USC governing the media beyond whatever law says you can’t say ‘fuck’ and show boobies on public telescreen…

    9: MIT is a public school, and Good Will Hunting is a documentary…further comment is unnecessary…

    10: The Republic of Minerva had an army…

    11: The theory that decentralized defense is worth the bother is falsified by any incident where a decentralized defense fell, but the same standards of evidence shouldn’t be applied to the theory that centralized standing armies are worth the bother…what can I say but, ‘get a brain, moran’?

    Like I said: looking around, it seems pretty certain that you will get all the centralized government you could ever hope for. But I don’t think it will give you what you want; it is far more likely to give you what you deserve.

  • 28. Snarky  |  February 27th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Wow, Unger the Taliban supporter.

    1. (Since you can only understand stuff when numbered.) The thing that differentiates the Taliban from other groups, i.e. Hezbollah, is that the Taliban slaughter women and kids, whereas Hezzies capture 2 Israeli soldiers, and then kick Israeli butt. Why is this difference so hard to comprehend for you?

    2. Strange how Neocons are becoming Libertarians now. Oh and, where again Libertarianism work? Minerva? Theories are nice, what works in reality is better. That’s what I prefer.

    3. Once again, some education is better then no education at all. You are ok with spending 700 BILLION DOLLARS on the armed, but 60 billion for education seems too much? Also, if you could just teach pure propaganda in your education system, the USSR would never have fallen apart. Ever think of that? Wait, I used Unger and think in the same sentence, damn, I am a hopeless optimist. And the UC system, damn you Berkeley kids, like Ames, don’t you feel so oppressed by Berkeley?

    4. I don’t insist that all powers should be delegated to the national government. Where have I said that? What, you have to resort to putting words in my mouth? Or are you going to use the slippery slope argument: if government funds education, oh no, the next step might be gas chambers? Also, it says that the powers are reserved for the states or the people, and the OR can be interpreted either way.

    5. Illiterate means OR write. If you are responding to my post, that means I have written something, and by definition cannot be illiterate. You sir are a completely fucked up moron piece of shit that cannot even insult someone properly. ROFL!

    6. Damn the Louisiana purchase. And while we’re at it, let’s go back to slavery, I mean the Federal Government (to Libertarians) definetely had to right to take the South’s property. What was that line? “Keep your hands off of my property, even when I jacked it from someone else”. Libertarianism, at least Unger’s version, is just not practical.

    7. I was against the bailouts, cause I don’t like rewarding incompetency. But if you are so pro-Darwin, shouldn’t that apply not only to people, but to ideologies as well? Ok then, dare I say Minerva?

    8. American Media isn’t properly regulated by the government’s anti-monopoly practices. Do I have to spell everything out? My main point, which your reading comprehension completely missed, was that 6 CEOs shouldn’t control over 90% of the market. Libertarianism would make it possible.

    9. Ohhh, such deep sarcasm. What about universities like UC Berkeley?

    10. I define an army as something that can fight, something that can at least put up some resistance. Gettiong pwned by half-naked spearmen isn’t something that I’d call an army.

    11. Decentralized defense and Centralized defense each have their own advantages and disadvantages. To say one is completely wrong, or superior in every situation over the other, is to make a mockery of yourselves in front of every military historian worth his salt. And decentralized defense worked sooo well in Minerva. See I can be sarcastic too.

    12. I don’t hope for the centralized government. I do hope that someday people will get the education that I got. After seeing how “valiantly” you fight against public education, favoring no education instead, I can say that your cause will never win.

  • 29. unger  |  February 27th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    You did not get an education. You were barely trained, and the professors who convinced you otherwise should be sued into bankruptcy for malpractice. What else can be made of ‘I string together words; therefore I am literate’? You aren’t. You’re utterly incapable of digesting disparate philosophies, as evinced by your truly bizarre belief that libertarianism is neoconservatism. If you cannot do this – and you plainly can’t – then you’re illiterate.

  • 30. Snarky  |  February 28th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    When you cannot argue against a person, insult him. Good job Unger, you made your mommy proud. Here’s the defenition of literacy from the quality or state of being literate, esp. the ability to read and write. Isn’t that amazing, I can read and write, therefore I am literate. You are a moron.

    So after I throughoutly trash all of your little arguments, all you can do is insult me, like Bill O’Reilly. You are not a Libertarian. You are a Neocon masquerading as a Libertarian. And getting insulted by a Neocon is like getting complemented. So thank you. And visit Minerva sometime. And at least be fucking honest, if you are a Neocon, say so. There’s no shame in being hated by the rest of the World and being a complete loser.

    Oh wait, there is, that’s why you gotta hide behind the Libertarian curtains. They’ll take anyone, they’re Libertarians! You may wish to read an article by Dana Milbank on Perle’s speech, where Neocon Perle gets trashed, just like your little pathetic ass. We’re one step ahead of you morons, always will be.

  • 31. unger  |  February 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Literacy is, as you said, the ability to read and write. You cannot read; you’re therefore illiterate. The proof that you cannot read is that you, after having read about libertarianism and neoconservatism, cannot distinguish between the two philosophies, much less, upon reading someone’s views, place him in the correct category. In my case, you have the totally backwards idea that my opposition to the State in all its forms is typical of neoconservatism, not libertarianism. I don’t think I need to reply to this thread anymore: I see I shall not convince *you*, but, for other readers, your own comments testify to your insipid ignorance.

  • 32. Snarky  |  March 1st, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Oh noes, I exposed Unger. Now he must insult me to restore his credibility and try to regain his own. Too bad he has none. Unger, you are a fucking scam artist, hoping that people won’t see beyond you insults, and your writing, praying that people won’t be able to read between the lines – you sir are a pathetic fuck.

    I’m not talking about Libertarianism as is presented by Jefferson, or Smith, I’m talking about Libertarianism as is presented by you and your Neocon thugs. The first Libertarianism is about hard work, dedication, and rising above the competition. Your Neocon Libertarianism is about jacking money from the Middle Class of the American Sheeple, placing the poor into Economic Slavery, just so you can make a buck. Get lost motherfucker.

  • 33. Snarky  |  March 1st, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    You know Unger, yelling “hands off my property” is moral, only when you have earned your property through hardwork, not merely inherited it, or even worse, jacked it from others, or killed others in order to get it, or raped the environment. When Google yells “hands off my property” I respect that. When Chevron does the same, I laugh at those losers.

    Unger is a fucktard, but the rest of you people might want to read some recent exiled online articles, like the ones about the Koch family and Santelli’s connection to the Koch family. It’s a great read, I highly recommend it and it ties into this little chat Unger and I had.

  • 34. unger  |  March 2nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    I don’t suppose you’d care to present anything I said that suggests that I hold anything at all approaching neocon views.

    …then again, this thread is full of proof that you are too dull for the task.

    Public schooling sucks, people – and stay the hell away from UC-Berkeley if you’re at all interested in developing a capacity for critical thought.

  • 35. Snarky  |  March 2nd, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    Unger, really, shut up. Now you are arguing that UC Berkeley blows, but that you’re not a Neocon. This is sad, but it is even more hilarious! UC Berkeley allows poor kids to get an education, without the Yale “honor system” – which enabled George Bush to graduate.

    As for your Neocon views Unger, you want to keep the poor man down and the rich man rich. You don’t care how people generate wealth, but once they have it, it’s theirs.

    Here’s how a typical Neocon plan works:
    Step I: Provoke country A to attack country B.
    Step II: Sell weapons to country A and country B.
    Step III: Make a huge profit and while pretending to be a peacebroker, by keeping them fighting!
    Step IV: Use Unger’s argument that no one is entitled to your hard earned money from killing babies.

    Clear enough Unger, or do you need more details?

    Public education enables people to share this knowledge, thus people like Unger and other Neocons are against public education.

    Also Unger, a real Libertarian would have had a panic attack, the minute I mentioned $700 billion on the military. You just managed a meager reply to that, just like a Neocon.

    And yet, in your sick and twisted brain, I’m somehow ignorant for pointing this out. Unger – go fuck yourself and stop fucking the American Sheeple, who by this point in time, should really have become the American People.

  • 36. unger  |  March 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    What part of “I don’t suppose you’d care to present anything I said that suggests that I hold anything at all approaching neocon views” did you not understand?

    It’s really simple. Provide a few of my quotes, in correct context, with evidence (read: quotes from neocons) showing that neocons come to the same conclusions as I do by similar thought processes.

    This will not be difficult if you aren’t talking out your ass. (Sadly, you *are* talking out your ass, and you wouldn’t know a neocon or a libertarian if either bit you on it.)

    You’re ignorant and illiterate – and indignant that not everyone else is.

  • 37. Snarky  |  March 3rd, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Unger, when you lose an argument, just shut the fuck up. Your spend more time insulting me, then you spend presenting your point. Your last couple of points have been that of a whiny slut, rather then saying anything substantial.

    You have argued to abolish the Department of Education. So have the Neocons, they want it gone! They want a bunch of uneducated infantry grunts, and the way to get American kids that way, is to follow your strategy of abolishing the Department of Education.

    Also, your “stay the hell away from Berkeley” quote comes directly from Neocons. A couple of posts ago, you said you wouldn’t post anymore. I suggest you take your advice, dipshit. That was a direct quote, said by you and the Neocons. Now get lost you little piece of shit.

    Funny, how the person arguing against schools is calling the person arguing in favor of schools “ignorant, illiterate and idignant that not everyone else is”. Yup, that’s me, wanting American kids to have an education and not get killed in a Third World Country. Sorry for ruining your plans Unger. I await more shitty insults from you dipshit, as you arguments seem to have evaporated a couple of posts ago.

  • 38. unger  |  March 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Where have the neocons tried to abolish the Department of Education? Reagan made an early campaign promise to do so, but unfortunately quickly dropped it, and actually *strengthened* the Department, not only in terms of funding and manpower, but mandate – and all of his successors, without fail, have done the same. Most recently, perhaps you remember a little thing called ‘No Child Left Behind’ that further centralized control of education? And as if continuing to screw with the public schools wasn’t bad enough, the GOP is shoveling government money – which *always* winds up with strings attached – at private schools. If you call this reducing government involvement in education, you’re probably also the sort of mindless twat who will cheer when the choco-rations are increased from thirty grams to twenty. And if you persist in saying their position is mine, as I’m pretty sure you will, you’ll only show yourself, once more, to be the illiterate I say you are.

    And …let me get this straight: your *only* other piece of ‘evidence’ is that I don’t like Berkeley? Just what kind of fucking idiot are you? I guess Stanford fans are all neocons? Every time I think you can’t possibly sound more stupid, you write another post. Fuck you.

  • 39. Snarky  |  March 3rd, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    Unger: “I am not a Neocon”
    (two lines later): “unfortunately they did not succeed in abolishing the education system”.

    Unger then goes on to explain why Neocons aren’t so bad, and finishes off with the usual “Neocons aren’t that bad, I’m not a Neocon” garbage. Unger, how stupid do you think the reader is? You said you won’t post a couple of posts ago, and yet you still continue, showing pure Neocon hypocracy. You stalk this column, posting as soon as you can.

    Also, I don’t see what’s wrong with government giving money to private school. Education is the best investment you can make. Too bad you didn’t make that investment Unger. No Child Left Behind was a moronic act passed by an uneducated moron. And guess who were bitching about it? The teachers! One bad act doesn’t make the whole system invalid. George Washington’s military career started out as a disaster, should he have quit? And yet you’re forcing Americans to quit education, haven’t Americans earned the right to be educated?

    Reagan didn’t streghten the department of education. He dumbed down Americans, I don’t see how dumbing someone down makes him or her smarter, perhaps you can elaborate on that Unger the Neocon.

    Also, where exactly is the connection between me supporting education and me cheering for choco-rations? When you make a comparison, poor, poor uneducated Neocon Unger, it is supposed to be relevant. You aren’t even comparing apples to oranges, you are comparing apples to aliens!

    I don’t say you are a Neocon because you dislike Berkeley. I said that you’re a Neocon, because you support their policies, by fooling the people into believing that without government education, as poor as it may be, Americans will be better off, which is the biggest amount of bullshit I have ever read! You, (Unger) cannot even fit that much bullshit up your (Unger’s) ass!

    Once again Unger, the hilarious thing is that you are try to shadily argue the Neocon agenda, by using the Libertarian Shield, on a website that’s dedicated to exposing Neocons!!! Do you see how idiotic you are?! And Unger, you may want to fuck me, but I don’t swing that way. Keep on insulting me, to me those are compliments, coming from an uneducated doltic boor such as yourself. Or you can go fuck yourself, your choice. In reality is it you who is ignorant, and angered that not everyone else is. How much are they paying you Unger? Is that worth treating fellow Americans like shit to you Unger?

  • 40. unger  |  March 4th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    I stalk this column for the same reason I hold up traffic and gawk at car crashes. You shouldn’t hold it against me; you very plainly do the same.

    And this is pretty damned rich. I provide hard objective historical proof that the neocon educational program is and has always been one of increased federal control over all education, public and private. I express my dislike of said program. You lecture me on why increased federal control over all education, public and private, is good…and then proceed to call *me* the neocon.

    Am I on Candid Camera or something? Because seriously, I can’t imagine how even UC-Berkeley could pass you if you’re for real. If you are, you’re the dumbest motherfucker I’ve ever encountered in my life.

  • 41. Snarky  |  March 4th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    See, I don’t stalk this column. I come on here, whenever I feel like it. Neocons have cutback on quality education spending. You can have school A recieving a million dollars, and all of that going towards teacher salaries, to attract the best teachers, and you can have school B recieving 2 million, but only a fourth of that goes to teachers. There’s also this thing called inflation. Real teacher salaries have fallen drastically over the past years. As has teachers’ standing in society.

    In addition to all this, teachers now have more work. As a result, the education system suffers. It took NASA less then ten years to put a man on the moon, (since JFK’s pledge). Still no man or woman walked on Mars, forty years later. Not difficult to see that since JFK’s assasination, especially during the Nixon-Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush years, education has been in steady decline.

    Also, funding doesn’t mean increased federal control. You could simply designate a talented principal, hand him a chunk of money and say “run the school as you see fit”. The “No Child Left Behind” Act was passed with Neocons in power, and it was an attempt to destroy the American Education System, just as you are trying to destroy the American education system by abolishing it. Also, Unger, if you’re not a Neocon, why are you denying it. I’m not a Republican, but if someone calls me a Republican, I’m not going to write essays denying it, unless I have something to hide.

    So Unger, go and suck Cheney’s dick, that’s what you excell at doing all these years. Suck it hard Unger, it’s the only thing you excel at. That and writing the lamest insults I have ever seen. “You dum mofo” – what are you? A WWE wrestler? A cunt? Seriously, that’s just lame.

    Also, since you fail at reading comprehension and probably didn’t pick it up: increased federal money does not equal increased federal control; UC Berkeley gets federal money and has very little federal control. Now Unger, go back to your master. He awaits with his pants open….

  • 42. Anonymous Liberal Bear  |  March 4th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    ROFL. Go Snarky. This is too funny, not only is Unger getting pwned like a noob, but Snarky is also making Unger post insults, that can best be directed at Unger. I wonder if Snarky and Unger are really the same person, who, when sober posts as Snarky and when drunk posts as Unger.

    If that’s not the case, perhaps Unger learned nothing from the pinkos, but increased governmental control over education leads to a reduction of quality of the education of a nation. Soviets didn’t censor math and science and became one of the best. Soviets censored politics and humanities and became one of the worst. Eliminating public education also leads to a reduction of quality of the education of a nation. Either way, Unger’s or Neocon’s the average American is getting fucked.

    But if Snarky and Unger are the same exact person – Snarky/Unger – WHY HAVE YOU BEEN PULLING MY LEG FOR SOOOO LONG!!!!

  • 43. unger  |  March 4th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    Yawn. Precisely how am I getting ‘pwned’? As I said at the very beginning: Worsening American literacy statistics speak for themselves. Declining American literature quality speaks for itself. That those have occurred in spite of almost-unabated centralization and funding increases over the past century and a half spells worsening ROI – at least insofar as the goal of education is to produce educated people…and as for that, the big-business (or more correctly, fascist) origins and purposes of American education are a matter of open historical record. Si monumentum requiris, circumspice.

    And neither of you have done a damned thing to address any of that. All you can do is make ungrounded assertions, against the evidence, that there’s some positive correlation between State education and the well-being of civilization. (And, of course, say, with no more evidence, that I’m a closet-neocon.) In so doing, you illustrate my point.

    But just to satisfy you and let you think you’ve won, I’ll confess to something juicy: I don’t think what’s happening to America is *all* bad. Eventually, your government is going to turn on you – openly, I mean. If it doesn’t kill you, it’ll at least make you aware of what you should’ve known all along: you sold yourselves and your children into slavery for a pittance, and welcomed your slavemasters with loud hosannas. The people with power do not deserve to hold it – no one, in fact, does – but many of the people they’re going to grind under their boots *thoroughly* deserve what they will get. Someday the guillotines will come out and the empire will fall, but not before it has scourged the worthless for their indolence.

  • 44. Snarky  |  March 5th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    Once again, the reason that the education has been falling in the US was the decline of real teacher salaries. I’ve mentioned that in several posts. How is it that I didn’t address it? Berkeley professors’ real salary didn’t fall, thus Berkeley is doing fine. The more the government pays to the teachers, the better the education system gets, really simple, be it centralized or decentralized. Not rocket science. Also, when you take inflation into account, you will always end up with a worsening ROI (return on investment) – that’s just the basics Unger.

    Also, only a closet Neocon, would present himself as a Libertarian, in order to try to get the department of education abolished so that his rich buddies can have more tax cuts, and the army can have more soldiers, and Americans will be easier to sucker into wars like Iraq. Again, very simple – you are a closet Neocon, stop denying it.

    And the American Empire fell due to derugulation of the economy and the news media, that suckered Americans into the Iraq invasion and encouraged over-spending, as a result the situation that Obama is now in is downright scary. Also, now Americans must be vigilant more then ever, but must also be able to realize that bailout to Homeowners are ok, whereas AIG bailouts are not. You have a right to a house, but not to your tenth luxury yacht.

    Americans – Neocons ruined your country, aren’t you going to at least prosecute them? Have some balls like Putin did and serve up Polonium to traitors, instead of criticizing Putin for it (and there’s a lot of actual shit to criticize Putin for).

  • 45. unger  |  March 5th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    I don’t suppose you have any real evidence regarding inflation-adjusted teacher salaries being in pronounced decline – especially relative to other fields, since real salaries in general have been in decline pretty much since Nixon closed the gold window? I don’t suppose you’ve even considered the likelihood that institutional pressures (read: federal guidelines like NCLB that force teachers to teach for standardized tests) drive away good teachers? No, it’s more fun to live in a socialist dreamworld where the simple solution to every failure is increased funding and centralization. God forbid people should take some local – much less individual – responsibility for educating their kids and themselves!

    As for ‘deregulation’ – I say ‘if only!’ The notion that this crisis occurred in a regulatory vacuum only shows how far removed you are from scientific habits of mind. In no particular order: I don’t suppose you’ve bothered to learn how accounting rules work, or how they’ve been repeatedly made less transparent and less reflective of reality? It’s probably never crossed your mind that the government sets, basically by fiat, the most fundamental price in the whole economy – the price of money – and that maybe thirty years of sustained fucking-with and serial bubble-blowing might do bad things. I suppose the Fed’s use of ‘primary dealers’ – shoveling tens of billions of freshly-printed, unbacked dollars (if you or I do it, it’s called kiting checks; if they do it, it’s monetary policy) at a handful of the biggest and most crooked banks each and every week is fucking textbook laissez-faire. Then of course there’s the sorry fact that the government always encouraged the popular delusion that some institutions were ‘too big to fail’ – and now is pulling through, yet again, to bail out the fuck-ups and buy more yachts for them. And let’s not even mention the government coercing lenders to lend to the indolent, and the government, via the GSEs, artificially propping up the markets for bad debt for decades on end…oh no. It was all the repeal of Glass-Steagall, see?

    Sorry. Ron Paul (a neoconservative ringleader, right?) had your number, and you people didn’t listen. You people thought it’d be funnier to laugh at him. I, personally, don’t think he could’ve saved the country, but Obama, who, between the bailouts and the new ‘surge’ in Afghanistan, seems intent on serving Dubya’s third term, *definitely* can’t. And now everyone is going to pay.

  • 46. Snarky  |  March 7th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    1. Moronic education bashing, check!
    2. Mention of Ron Paul to show off Libertarian credentials, check!
    3. Not answering most of my post, check!
    4. The follow me or be an idiot clause, check!
    5. If you don’t follow my ideas, you will all be fucked aka trying to scare people into submission, check!
    6. Completely misunderstanding deregulation, check!
    7. Statement of fact, and then spinning your own analysis unrelated to the fact, check!
    8. Criticizing the system, and offering the “give power back to the wealthy solution”, check!

    How again are you not a Neocon? The only difference is that you actually mentioned Ron Paul. Aside from the sentence on Ron Paul, that’s word for word what Rick Santelli would say. Yeah Unger, I’m done with your pathetically idiotic posts.

  • 47. unger  |  March 7th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    Um, I *did* answer your post, fool – almost line by line.

    I’m not a neocon because I, unlike them – or you, who disagree with the neocons only on trivial matters, and fully and uncritically accept their collectivist, interventionist, and authoritarian fundamental principles of statecraft – see practically no use for the State, an institution that *by definition* must use force to benefit the well-connected at the expense of the less-well-connected.

    You can call State-education bashing ‘moronic’ all you like, but you still haven’t even attempted to show that its quality varies in proportion to its funding, or that it has ever been anything but a tool of the elites you claim to criticise. (On that matter, I’m starting to think you protest too much. If your every solution is more centralization and more government, that makes you different from the banksters…how?)

    You can say I ‘misunderstand deregulation’ all you like, but unless you can actually refute what I said and show that the above State interferences really weren’t, it’s *you* who misunderstands it.

    Ah well. Like I said, you sold yourself and your children into slavery for a pittance, and welcomed your slavemasters with hosannas. You wouldn’t know who said it, save, perhaps, that ‘he’s that beer guy’, but a certain man, speaking to people just like you, and hence to you by extension, once charitably wished that your chains would set lightly upon you. So do I. It charms me that you call anarchists neocons, and that you are too dull and generally Californian to see the neoconservative principles in your own thought. You’re a caricature of the stereotypically stupid, self-righteous, statolatrous American, and I don’t think this little exchange could possibly have entertained me more.

  • 48. unger  |  March 10th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    …not to beat a dead horse, but for anyone interested, I suggest that the famous right-wing neocon warmonger and banking magnate Ivan Illich’s ‘Deschooling Society’ – – is worth the read.

    “Many students, especially those who are poor, intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby ‘schooled’ to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence, and fluency with the ability to say something new. His imagination is “schooled” to accept service in place of value. Medical treatment is mistaken for health care, social work for the improvement of community life, police protection for safety, military poise for national security, the rat race for productive work. Health, learning, dignity, independence, and creative endeavor are defined as little more than the performance of the institutions which claim to serve these ends, and their improvement is made to depend on allocating more resources to the management of hospitals, schools, and other agencies in question.”

    I believe Snarky and his supporters provide all the proof of this one could want.

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