Will India and Pakistan ever finish the cat-fight and get on with a real war? “We live in hope,” like my grandma used to say — but don’t hold your breath. Listening to the Indian and Paki generals shaking their little fists at each other, with their little mustaches going up and down, hearing the Indians talk about how their patience is “almost” exhausted — it just gets me down.
This fag-slapping shit gives war a bad name.
I used to live next to a housefull of Pakistanis in Santa Ana. They were all brothers or cousins or something and ran this pirate cab company, and they fought non-stop — but I never saw a single punch thrown. It was this weird Pakistani style of fighting: they’d yell for hours before they escalated to slapping — weird downward slaps, like elephants hitting each other with their trunks. After a couple minutes of that, they’d each retreat about five yards and look around for automotive parts to throw. They’d keep throwing till they were tired, or till they accidentally hit one of the half-fixed taxis parked in the yard. That was the only thing that sobered them up: hurting a car. When they drew blood on each other they’d cheer, but if they broke a windshield they’d instantly stop fighting and run up to the car moaning and sobbing.
The way those cabdrivers fought is the way India and Pakistan fight — maybe it’s something in the water there. It’s always low-intensity, low-risk skirmishing, like these “mortar duels” the networks keep reporting from Kashmir. Mortar duels are the perfect combat for cowards, because the mortar is a very high-trajectory weapon, so you can fire it over hills and never even see the enemy face-to-face.
I’m not knocking mortars; they can be powerful weapons in the hands of a real army. The East Asians are particularly good with them. A mortar barrage from Chinese or Vietnamese troops is a serious deal. But that’s because East Asian troops take the risk of lugging their tubes right up to the front line, where they can do quick rangefinding and walk their fire right up to the enemy positions.
The mortar barrages you hear about on the India-Pakistan line are nothing like that. These are from mortars dug in way behind the front line. The aim isn’t really to hit any enemy troops but to make a lot of noise, a lot of chimpanzee-style hooting. At most, they aim at a fixed target already plotted. Like a village. Border villages make great targets, because they’re not going anywhere and can’t fight back. So both armies blow up huts on the other side of the border and kill a lot of livestock.
Somebody should do a history of livestock-killing as an element of military history. In the fifteenth century, the Germans called soldiers “the horse-butchers’ league” because it was basic tactics to kill knights’ horses — by taking them out of the saddle, you cut their speed and mass by two-thirds. In “primitive warfare” like you see in Africa, killing the enemy’s cattle is the worst blow you can inflict, worse than killing the wives. And in Kashmir right now, the main target for the brave mortarmen of both armies is livestock. You mortar a village and you’ll only kill a few villagers; the rest will duck inside, get down on the floor after the first shells hit. But cattle can’t duck, so they inevitably get shrapnelled into hamburger.
And the really sad thing is the villagers — on the Indian side of the border, anyway — can’t even eat the sacred-cow meat. That’s one good argument for Islam, I guess: at least you can eat the cattle-casualties. Or maybe not, because the Muslims have that whole “halal” deal where you can only eat animals killed in the proper Mohammedan manner. I doubt if an 82-mm mortar is an Imam-approved slaughtering device.
Religion — ain’t it wonderful?
Anyway, the point is: the longer these two chickenshit armies mortar each other, the less likely it is they’ll ever get down to business with a real war. The mortar duels are military masturbation, a way of letting off steam. When you mortar each other for months and months, you’re signaling the fact that you scared of a real fight.
The Indian Army has the weapons and the numbers to win. They’ve got plenty of hardware and 1.1 million men, roughly the number of riders on the average Indian train. But it’s hard to believe the Indian Army has the right spirit when you see them drilling in those wacky uniforms, doing the Monty Python moves they got from the British. Goosestepping, swaggersticks, little mustaches — it’s pathetic. You keep looking around for John Cleese as officer-in-charge.
True, the Indians have beaten the Pakistanis three times out of three (in 1947, 1965 and 1971). But look at what happened the one time they tried fighting a real army: the India-China war of 1962. India decided that its new status as world power required it to grab a few square miles of Himalayan wasteland from China. They worked themselves up into a war frenzy and attacked the Chinese. The Chinese, who don’t do woofing, made no boasts, tried smoothing things over, and when that failed, quietly flattened the Indian army. It was a rout: mustaches and swaggersticks sprinting downhill so fast the snow hadn’t yet melted on their helmets when they hit 120-degree Delhi. After that, the Indians decided they’d stick to picking on someone less than half their own size: the Pakistanis.
The Pakistani Army only has 550,000 men — just about the number of spectators crushed to death in the average cricket match in Karachi. They talk big — what do you expect, when the name Pakistan means “land of the pure”? But they’ve lost 3 out of 3 to the Hindus. The Pakistani Army is one of those third-world armies that specialize in protection money, not war. The Army runs the country, and the intelligence service, the ISI, runs the Army. And the ISI doesn’t want a real fight. They’d rather shake down the local drug dealers and let the Kashmiri “jihadi” groups they control raid India. It’s safer and cheaper. Besides, they know they’d lose a real war. As long as the Pakistanis act through the “jihadi,” they can keep denying any involvement at all. In other words: it’s the usual cowardly standoff.
But we’re supposed to believe it might get serious this time, because the ruling party in India are “Hindu militants.” Uh…yeah. “Hindu militants”! I can’t help it, that phrase just cracks me up every time I hear it. What does a Hindu militant do, anyway? Scream, “You bastard, you ate my great-grandfather!” at the drive-thru window of the New Delhi Burger King? The only thing these “Hindu militants” ever did was burn down shops selling Valentine’s Day cards. Don’t ask me why. Apparently they’re anti-love. I have to agree with them on that. Death to Love! Make War on Love! I’m all for that. But I just don’t see how putting a match to some Hallmark cards qualifies you to be the kind of “militant” who actually fights and wins wars. All I know is, militants whose big atrocity is burning Hallmark cards don’t sound too scary. Just reasonable.
The other reason we’re supposed to be scared is: the Nukes. Oh no, nukes! Like everybody’s supposed to faint the moment nukes get mentioned. People act like the moment somebody’s got one nuke, they’ve “got nukes.” It doesn’t work that way. They’re not guppies — they don’t breed on their own. You have to build a stockpile one at a time. And you have to use them. Until then, they’re museum pieces. The Pakistanis only have about 20. Suppose they use ’em all, and every one kills 500,000 Indians. Let’s do the math. The Indians lose… 10 million people-hey, that’s one percent of their population. One percent! Whoop-tee-doo! Stalin fed a quarter of the Soviet population to the Nazi meat grinder, and look what he got: half the world was his! Surely Kashmir and Januu are worth a measly one percent?!
India has about 200 nukes, so they could wipe out Pakistan. Over. “Land of the Pure” becomes “Land Where There is No Land, Just Smoked Glass.” But they won’t, because they’re too chickenshit. And Pakistan won’t nuke them, because it wouldn’t do anything except maybe finally piss the Indians off enough to act.
So nothing’s going to happen. It’s just another big media fake, like skinheads and Y2K. It’s teasers like these that make life in Fresno a daily hell.
If the Indians were going to do something, they would’ve done it when the Pakistani/Kashmiri terrorists attacked the Indian parliament a few months ago. Bodies everywhere, RPGs blasting the government HQ — and all the Indians did was screech that their patience was “almost” running out. Or a few weeks ago when they attacked the Indian army barracks…and slaughtered a few dozen women and children as they pulled up in a bus. Again, the Indian patience was “almost” at an end. And that’s all they’ll ever say: they’re “almost” ready to fight.
As a former elementary-school bully (turned high school punching bag), I’ll tell you a little secret: there is no “almost” in a fight. When you’re fighting somebody who “almost” hits people, you can relax. He won’t do shit.
I wish I had better news. I wish I could tell you there was a chance of a war worth watching down in that hellhole subcontinent. But there isn’t. They’ll probably wipe each other out someday, but till then it’s just going to be dead cows and villagers, and dumb generals in secondhand British uniforms talking big for the camera with their little moustaches going up and down, up and down.
This article was first published on May 29, 2002.
Gary Brecher is the author of the War Nerd. Send your comments to brecher@exiledonline.com.
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75 Comments
Add your own1. oleg | December 5th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Oh, man, coming from an American, that’s gotta hurt! For if there are people out there who are more afraid of hand-to-hand combat than Indians and Pakis, it must be the Yanks. Don’t they call for air support as soon as their adversary farts too loud? And what’s this obsession with “beyond the horizon” fighting capability if not desperate avoidance of real danger? Americans are real tough with point and click, but take away the gizmos and the icecream, and the US miltary would become the biggest collection of diaper-wearing adults of fighting age in the whole world. Anyway, if Indians have won 3 wars after 1947, that’s 3 more than Americans did, despite having less chances.
2. LatexSolarBeef | December 5th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Classic War Nerd indeed.
3. Paul | December 5th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Oleg, you must be from the former eastern bloc. You dumb fuck, you piece of shit, how did you ever get on the internet? Your mother should have had an abortion. Why are you on a computer?
Who told you you could work with men?
4. Baked Dr. Luny | December 5th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Pakistan deserves to be flattened, they have no real friends and their country is a basket-case. India would stomp them in a conventional war. The problem would be the massive insurgency after the war. Sind and the Punjab wouldn’t be that hard to control, but I don’t think anyone wants to try to occupy the northwest fronteir province.
5. Scathing Review | December 5th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
The world fails to amuse Gary yet again. Somehow though, Gary is still amusing. Good one.
6. Saurabh | December 5th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Well done Sir,
Nice article, well thought out points, all of it done from the small computer that you usually use to watch asian porn!!!!!
Brilliant!!!
P.S. if you’re too dumb to figure it out, you’re life spent blogging on the internet is even more chickenshit then the people who defend their own country no matter what kind of enemy they’re facing. I hope you get some sort of real life education when you do leave your parents basement, because we all know thats where you live. And, for your information the next time you see an indian or pakistani person remember they have more brain matter then you thats why they use their words not their weapons to fight. But who are we kidding we all know its your own insecurity that has led you to find flaws in people that could possibly never read or even care about what a stupid American loser in California has to say about them. I feel ashamed to call myself American sometimes, usually when I see the people like you.
7. Weldon Rumproast | December 5th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
yo Raj, lay off the war nerd!
As for your point about being smarter and using your words, this is an article about WAR.
I bet you feel as big as he does threatening people from the comfort of your Aeron chair in Silicon Valley. Isn’t there some server you need to reboot?
8. csonka | December 5th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
someone hand Saurabh a hanky (oh yea with that name you sure are american) :'(”’
9. xyz | December 5th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Gary articles on south asia are not amusing. India and Pakistan fought three conventional wars in 60 years. India fought a conventional war with China, that makes India’s tally 4 more than America’s or Israel’s. The third war with Pakistan achieved a real strategic objective – the splitting of Pakistan. Since Gary is an ignorant let me shed some light on this war. The US was getting very friendly with Pakistan and ignored the genocide in East Pakistan (Bangladesh). When 10 million refugees poured into India, the then Indian Prime minister decided to wage a war. India out maneuvered the US diplomatically by convincing France, Germany, USSR and Britian about the necessity of war. The war was a success on a scale that most Gary cannot imagine. Pakistan suffered a crushing defeat with, East Pakistan was liberated and became Bangladesh a new interim government was formed and Indian troops got out without getting bogged, all in 17 days. The US 7th fleet which set sail to threaten India was was too late for the party. Gary should read some real accounts of war in Asia.
Lets not forget the Indian ‘peace keeping’ mission to Sri Lanka and the ‘low intensity’ war between Pakistan and India. Pakistan has been fighting its own wars in Afghanistan and it’s Northwest frontier province. These wars produce casualties on a scale that would frighten any American military planner.
The Kargil war saw lots of old fashioned hand to hand combat in mountains. Mountain combat is difficult but it’s not in slow motion unless it is a fat nerd from Fresno who is dreaming of the war. You can call this hand to hand brutal fighting as bad strategy/tactics, but the Indians and Pakistanis involved were no faggots. Faggots cry for air support, faggots cry if they dont have the material luxuries of a 5 star hotel during combat, not Indians and Pakistanis.
Lastly if we Indians and Pakistanis are hesitant to duke it out in a full scale war, it is because we still have some sanity left. We are sane enough to not rush into a war without clearly defined achievable strategic objectives.
10. sameasiteverwas | December 5th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
“The Kargil war saw lots of old fashioned hand to hand combat in mountains.”
Hate to break it to you, sport, but Gary’s demolished the Kargil war too.
11. Lunatic | December 5th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Gary, you’ve done the impossible: you’ve managed to unite the Indians and the Pakistanis by accusing both of them of being incompetent subcontinentals. Now the “desi pride” is kicking in, and it no longer matters if you’re Hindu or Muslim. Now, each group is saying that Indo-Paks are NOT pussies.
Seriously, if only you could do this with other warring groups (Israeli/Pals, Hutus/Tutsis, Georgian/Russian, etc.), we’d have world peace, except everyone will train their guns on the War Nerd now.
12. jesus reyes | December 5th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
But they have it in ’em. You describe the India-Pakistan fault line perfectly, but the internal Hindu-Muslim fault line is another matter completely. They mob up and start singing the “Vande Mataram” and just blow the beeffingjesus out of everything they see.
13. oleg | December 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Paul, ouch, man, angry American you are. Please, don’t scare me like that. After disregarding the almost natural idiocy of your ouburst, I got very impressed with your typically American inability to come up with even a single sound argument to debunk my rather valid points. Even though you seem a bit lost and even retarded, I can’t really blame you. With your messed up lifestyle I’d become a dimwitted bozo as well. Let me help you out. For example, you could say: “Oleg, you little eastern bloc asshole, don’t you know that we brave Americans defeated mighty Grenada?”. And I would say “Yeah, Paul, my apologies, you Yanks are new Romans now. How could I forget about Grenada? That was campaign for the ages. You can and should be really proud of that”. And then you’d go back to your trailer to fornicate with your sister, and I’d try to figure out this thing called Internet.
14. Stephen | December 5th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
The USA does not want Pakistan to do there usual escalations of moving troop to the Indian border as it will reduce there presence on the Afgan border. But I think that is short term thinking. Because if the situation escalates to full scale total war with nuclear weapons then when india stomps on pakistan the area can be ocupied by Indian troops who after such a bloody war will of worked up fully developed genocidal bloodlust. So that soon after there wont be any muslims alive to make any kind of trouble in Pakistan at all. So if they are sencible the CIA should be doing all it can to trigger a nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
15. American | December 5th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
>> Americans are real tough with point and click, but take away the gizmos and the icecream
maybe so, but that’s irrelevant. Its fairly well established that he who has the best gizmos wins.
“Whatever happens, we have got The Maxim Gun, and they have not. —Belloc, (Joseph ) Hilaire Pierre
16. Seryoga | December 5th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Dear Oleg, you’re a dipshit! Grenada??? Who gives a rat’s ass about Grenada. I’m still living off how we fucking schooled you’re dumb ass country during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Russia has been trying to find its balls ever since. Secondly, lay off the War Nerd (ahem Nolan!!) I’ve seen the Indian slapa-palloza first hand at my local samosa shack, and can safely say that Indians are pussies. A lot of slapping, yelling and spitting! Yuck! And since Paki’s are a poorer and dumber version of Indians, they’re no better, maybe more diseased.
Good day to you Sir!!
17. Alok | December 5th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Nothing like insecure Americans sucking on the last bits of denial candy trying to stoke up warm memories of false machismo to feel better about themselves.
Before reprinting “classics”, at least try and exercise one of your two remaining brain cells about what could have possibly changed in 6 years. The use of even a single brain cell would have told you “a hell of a lot”, but evidently that is an intellectual leap far beyond most of your morons.
Face it turds. Your army is running around in a wild goose chase in Afghanistan in a lost cause, and the Shias are sniggering behind your backs about your “regime change” that sees them as the masters of the Middle East for the near future. Meanwhile a bunch of pirates from the poorest country in the world casually steal your oil and you don’t do a damn thing about it. (This, btw, is all from the War Nerd’s articles).
World’s changing around you, dickheads, and all you can do is rehash some long forgotten diatribe and rub your machismo trying to forget that you don’t have jobs, money or a house. Pray that we find a use for some of you when we divide up your bankrupt country between ourselves and the Chinese.
18. Seryoga | December 5th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Nice! Listen Alok (stupid name) – divide deez nuts!!
19. J. Byron | December 5th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
<>
Yeah, dear american. That has been SO clearly established in Vietnam and the Irak.
Oleg, you are so right on the money. In Central America in the 80s, I remember a certain squad from Fort Bragg asking for an evac because their shiny boots were rotting in the the jungle and the M16 didn’t like humidity that much.
20. American | December 5th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
>> Your army is running around in a wild goose chase in Afghanistan in a lost cause
I concede there is a certain sham value to these wars, but however they turn out, the gizmos get better & better. There’s a certain irony here though because Americans largely shun math and physics in favor of frat parties, booze, and chicks. The mental heavy lifting is left to high-IQ immigrants, usually of Asian persuasion, and a minority of white geeks. The latter of whom don’t score chicks, so they have nothing better to do except get the PhD Electrical Engineering. White geeks whose writing ability exceeds their mathematical ability become bloggers and journalists.
21. Kirby | December 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I should point out that if person #1 says “your nation is a fag,” that might upset person #2. If person #2 responds with “your nation is a bully, and you’re a fat loser,” he may be correct, but that doesn’t automatically negate #1’s arguments.
War Nerd might say things that bother various nationalists, but attacking America probably won’t bother him. Do some research, and you’ll find that he can be pretty scathing about the US military as well. He’s no mindless neocon super-patriot.
Find his article about the Sikhs, and you’ll see that he doesn’t think ALL Indians are pansies.
22. John | December 5th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Oleg, America tried hand-to-hand fighting in conventional wars. It didn’t work, and the closest it ever came to working was the disaster of Pickett’s Charge. So we got fucking rid of it. That is a thing called “progress.” Perhaps one day your part of the world can have some progress of your very own.
23. xyz | December 5th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
All these American war nerd fans dont even read their own dear Gar properly. All the fancy hardware and gizmos are useless without real courage and toughness on the battle field and diplomacy, propaganda off it. Let me count the number of wars that the gizmo wielding Americans won – Granada. Gulf war 1 that Gary loves so much was less about military skill than about diplomacy. The most hi tech force along with the a large coalition took 6 weeks to defeat an army battered by a decade of war. The victory was empty since it changed nothing. Act 2 in 2003 and America’s confidence takes a beating. I am yet to see the Americans win a decent war. 4500 dead in Iraq and the wimps cry for a retreat. The most hi tech force in the world is getting its ass kicked by a bunch of illiterate, backward, starving Pushtu. Seriously any small time nationa would do better with half the resources that America is pouring into its wars.
One can criticize the strategic and diplomatic blunders made by India, but we south asians still have some dignity and courage.
@QAmerican – The mental heavy lifting is left to the geeks… Well whatever success America has achieved is because of these geeks. Grunts like you have frat parties and end up as cannon fodder in wars.
24. John Thomas | December 5th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Have another bottle of Vodka oleg, and drink yourself to death like a good little Ivan.
At least the world can console itself in the knowledge that you borscht eating alkies are impotent.
25. John Thomas | December 5th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
P.S. Don’t worry about the Injuns. As the great Jay Leno once said in a Doritos commercial: “Don’t worry, we’ll make more”. Aside from arguing about the price of the Oranges at the checkout, it’s one of the things they do exceptionally well.
26. Plamen Petkov | December 5th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
bravo, Oleg! you said
it way better than I
ever could!
hey John, wanna talk
progress? A bunch of
ragheads in Iraq kept
you busy for years untill
you had to built walls
to stop them. One word
for you baby: VietNam
You certanly ran away from there with your tails between your legs
, didnt you? And big bad NATO
STILL cant do anything in Afganiusta
ng resembling victory
in Afganistan. There is NO progrsss
in war. Either you win ir or you don.t
Hey Paul, personal
attacks don’t a good
argument make.
Havent you learn that?
But then Americans
are NOT the brightest
people on the planet
just the most insolent
ones.
Gary, that WAS the MOST
dissponiting War nerd
article you ever did.
Shame on you for
writing such crap.
You so blood thrusty
you should join the
US army you fat piece
of shit. But
apperantly you ARE
the chicken shit
yourself. It’s easy to
write about a war
sitting on your
armchair.
PS. Fix your shitty
HTML or PHP or
whatever you are using
on your web site,
it sux.
27. John Smith | December 5th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
I thought this article was great.
I do wish you’d give us a peek behind the curtain and say how you concluded that Pakistan could only take out 1% of India’s population, while India could eliminate Pakistan, but a quick sniff around with Google does more or less support that analysis.
28. John | December 6th, 2008 at 2:26 am
“Its fairly well established that he who has the best gizmos wins.”
Yea so why do Americans always lose to peasants who have no gizmos at all? Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
No wait! You did manage Grenada! I guess gizmos can be useful provided there’s no peasants around to shove them up your ass.
29. aleke | December 6th, 2008 at 2:52 am
Anyway I’m glad a bunch of idiots from that subcontinent have invaded this message board, but this is spot on. Have a real war! America may do some chicken shit things but they’re the ones running the world (well, for now anyway). You should be grateful it’s not the genocidal Britons still slaughtering and subjugating you directly and efficiently.
30. dave | December 6th, 2008 at 2:58 am
@oleg I am assuming you are Russian….are you seriously going to criticize the US? with your own debacles in Afghanistan and more importantly Chechnya….do you know anything about your own history? if you did you wouldnt even open your mouth.
*pashol na hui*
31. wengler | December 6th, 2008 at 3:12 am
Waves of peasants willing to be ground up as cannon fodder will usually win against occupiers, provided there are enough peasants. India isn’t going to attack Pakistan over the Mumbai massacres. They will just intensify the war in Kashmir for a little while.
Hand-to-hand combat is not a practical part of modern warfare. Unless you think shooting people with a M-16 is hand-to-hand combat.
32. dave | December 6th, 2008 at 3:14 am
@xyz
no comment on the Sino/Indian war??
Since you love to analyze why not compare how Ameicans fared differently fighting the Chinese? and also remember we fought them thousands of miles from home, *not on our border* and often hand to hand. there is an amazing amount of history in your region you should brush up on it.
33. M1 | December 6th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Grenada: Folks, I fear many of you claiming Grenada was a trophy kill are significantly mistaken: the causus bellus was staged and the execution of the liberation a farsical disaster. This seems to have bypassed all but those 5th tier med students on the isle back in the day and that BBC chic in Grenada whose reports of theatrics and debacle were killed by her editors. Anyways…
34. xyz | December 6th, 2008 at 8:42 am
@dave, I commented on the sino indian war in my first comment. I said India was thrashed soundly. China was and is a superior military power compared to India. India won 3 conventional wars against Pakistan one of them produced a real strategic geopolitical victory as well, not just a military one. Its the same Pakistan that the US finds difficult to deal with. Its the same Pakistan that regularly out maneuvers American policy. Its the same Pakistan that played a crucial role in defeating the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. So start respecting the courage of the Indians and Pakistanis (and the Chinese).
The US won against the Chinese?? When? If you are referring to the Korean war, then you got your facts wrong. Firstly China was an impoverished newly created nation wrecked by decades of civil war and Japanese aggression and yet they managed to successfully fight the Americans. The US 8th army and the 7th infantry division were humiliated by a Chinese army that had earlier force marched to the point of exhaustion. Lets not forget that the Chinese did not have even a fraction of the fire power that America possessed. The final outcome of the war – a North Korea that still tells the US and the rest of the world to f*** off. That is not a victory for the US.
*not on our border*, perhaps you should visit the Himalayan mountain ranges to understand what ‘the border’ (the Indo-Pak and the Sino-Indian ) looks like. It is the most hostile terrain and climate in which wars have been fought. If you havent heard of Siachin, google it up. It takes real fortitude to fight in this terrain.
Pakistan doesnt a full fledged war with India, neither does India. The reasons are simple. 1. it would be too costly. 2. The outcome is uncertain, India would probably win on the battle field, but it will not able to ‘occupy’ Pakistan. Such a victory will not change anything. 3. Once a full war starts the faggy western world will pressure
both India and Pakistan to cease fire, as they did the last three times. Not much point in fighting for a week and wasting many lives and billions of dollars. 4. China is an unpredictable factor. China and India have many border disputes and there is a lot of mutual suspicion. China has been covertly teaming up with Pakistan for decades, exporting missile and nuclear technology. One of the nightmare scenarios for Indian military planners is a simultaneous war with Pakistan and China. There has been a growing realisation within the Indian army that the real conventional military threat to India is from China, which can easily repeat the 1962 Sino Indian war. 5.For Pakistan the easier route is the low intensity jihadi war. All these war nerd fans and Gary himself fail to truly realise that the nature of war has changed. Gary has written many articles about this and once in a while I did think that the fatty from Fresno has some sense. But he quickly writes a piece of trash and shows us that he is just a ‘pathological violence lover’. These low intensity conflicts are the war now. The Iraq war was officially over long ago, but the urban guerrilla war is bleeding the Americans. Pakistani (and Chinese ) military planners know the power of such guerrilla wars and in fact the Chinese have this doctrine of unrestricted warfare which would rely heavily on guerrilla tactics, sabotage and political unrest. These tactics require courage and cannot be executed by fags. I am an Indian, I hate these Paki terrorists, but I do admire their courage.
My original intention was not about commenting upon the not so glorious American military history. All I want to say is that the war nerd is ignorant like the rest of the ‘media pundits’. If India and Pakistan do not slug it out and kill millions there are good reasons and none of them have anything to do courage or being faggy. South Asians and Chinese come across as polite and non aggressive to the point of being push overs, but its just the culture of our civilizations. When it comes to war we have been more ruthless than western nations. It would be good if Gary and the rest of his followers read up some history of south Asia.
35. Fucktard | December 6th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Greg Comlish
Greg Comlish
Greg Comlish
Greg Comlish
Greg Comlish
Greg Comlish
Greg Comlish
36. American | December 6th, 2008 at 10:03 am
re. Vietnam
if you were a South Vietnamese Catholic, then the American withdrawal / “loss” was a disaster. If you were a South VietCong guerrilla, then the withdrawal was bittersweet. There is a great book out there on this perspective “VietCong Memoirs”. If you were a North Vietnamese NVA, then perhaps it was a victory. However in all cases, the Vietnamese suffered appalling losses, relative to their American opponents.
In hand to hand combat, it would probably have been tit for tat. However, American’s had gizmos, and endless amounts them, which was serious force multiplication.
Gizmo’s don’t guarantee a victory, esp. in guerrilla warfare, but I certainly don’t envy the guerrilla, and would not want to be on the business end of say a Vulcan Canon. The life of a powerful brave man without gizmo’s is as cheap as Zimbabwe currency.
37. burbl | December 6th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Looks like the dickheads of all breeds and creeds have missed this:
This article was first published on May 29, 2002.
38. Johnnycomelately | December 6th, 2008 at 11:33 am
HA! This is some funny stuff. What is so spectacular about the kashmir anyhow? Does anyone even know why they are fighting anyhow??. You all sound like a bunch of idiots. The only country that seems to have it all figured out is Switzerland…they just keep quietly making money while the rest of us fucktards engage in ignorant tribal pissing contests. The only thing worse than that is the US which elevates a tribal pissing contest into a world catrastrophe.
39. Delfosse | December 6th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Anyway, if Pakistan ever fires those 20 nukes, some of them will probably go on Bangladesh and on Israel, to make it more funny.
And then Pakistan is fucked.
40. Andrew | December 6th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
“Nice article, well thought out points, all of it done from the small computer that you usually use to watch asian porn!!!!! ”
I think this dovetails to an important issue: why is there nobody into sub continent pornography? Clearly, nobody ever confuses “Asian porn” to mean “Indian or Paki chicks.”
41. C. Khan | December 6th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
This article wallows in stupidity and ignorance. Januu? No such place. Cant eat cows? Most Kashmiris are Muslims. Hindu militants dont do shit? What about Gandhi’s assassination, partition of 47, Mumbai riots of 92-93, Gujarat riots of 02 (which happened just before this article was written)? India attacked China in 62? No, China attacked India.
You, sir, do not know shit. War Nerd? Probably more like World-of-Warcraft Nerd.
42. xyz | December 6th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
@C.Khan. world of war craft nerd hahaha. The the war nerd probably gets his ‘war info’ from computer games.
Now for the disagreements – Hindu militants dont do shit. Mumbai riots + Gujrat riots killed less than 2000 including some Hindus. If the ‘Hindu militants’ were ‘real militants’ you would be adding a few zeros to that figure. Na the Bajrang Dal, VHP and Shiv Sena are just a bunch of rowdy ignorant goons. The RSS is over rated. Their brown shorts wearing ‘cadre’ are a bunch of unemployed clowns and their leadership wonders why they are never voted to power. Partition of 47 was more like a civil slaughter with tens of thousands of Hundus, Muslims and Sikhs killing each other in India and Pakistan, they did not require too much provocation. Na on the whole Hindus did not form militant organisations.
But this doesnt mean that the Hindus are not courageous, otherwise they would not have survived the Muslim onslaught and the subsequent British conquest. Every nation that has fallen to Islamic rulers was completely converted to Islam, except India. Most nations that suffered European conquests in the 19th century have significant and influential Christian populations, but not India. Even Rome and Europe fell to Christianity. Of all the cultures and civilizations of the world Hindu India alone has withstood the millenia with a continuity in religion, culture and language because India was never truly subjugated by anybody. Maybe the war nerd can ponder on this, if he can ponder anything at all.
43. LB | December 7th, 2008 at 1:37 am
Januu=Jannu, I am surprised you could not figure that out.
The simple fact is India and Pakistan are much of a muchness, and have not been good for anything than outsourced tech support and a decent tea since the Brits left.
Do you think Brecher gives a fuck what a bunch of whining sub-continental fags and idiot American flag waving fuckwits thinks about him? His predictions are remarkably accurate most of the time, and no amount of whining from you moronic cowfuckers will change that.
44. Johnny Gaddar | December 7th, 2008 at 4:19 am
Gary, I’ve been a long time reader; and recall this article, written after the Parliament attack on Dec 12, 2002. That was disappointment number one. This is stale shit dude. I was expecting you to write about the Mumbai attacks.
Second, I know war is your high and all, but dude, you have very little knowledge of events in the subcontinent in the last 50 years or so. The Indians did not attack China. That’s a crazy thing to say, considering then prime minister Nehru was falling over himself preaching love to the Chinese. The Chinese just took it upon themselves one day to show who’s boss in the region and invaded India. And just like that, one day, they halted and called a ceasefire, and went back to Beijing. It left Nehru bitter and heartbroken – and he died shortly after.
Also, it’s not Kashmir and ‘Januu’. C’mon man! Didn’t expect that from you. It’s Jammu & Kashmir. Also, Indian press consistently has been esitimating India’s nuke stockpile at between 40-60 bombs. Not 200.
I hope the next war nerd dispatch is better!
45. fireclown | December 7th, 2008 at 5:54 am
For a good long while I have considered the India/Pakistan war to be something of a success. If either side REALLY wanted a war, they could damned well have one. A big ‘un, with maneuver divisions, air strikes and more killing than you could shake a stick at. As a bonus, it could well go nuclear. Instead, they have decided to piss a little over Kasmir of all places. Every now and then someone shoots at someone else, and both sides get to go home and brag to the proles about how brave forces have struck a blow against Indian expansionism/Pakisatani terrorism.
From a war nerd perspective it is frustrating. From a not killing or displacing a quarter of the worlds population (more, once China involves herself somehow) it’s a damned good system.
46. C. Khan | December 7th, 2008 at 7:52 am
@LB Jannu? No such place. (I know what you ignorant couch potatoes are going for, keep trying).
@xyz I agree 100% that Hindu militants are nowhere near their Muslim counterparts in terms of fanaticism, organization, even courage (if I may use that word; the fashion is to denounce the ‘cowardly’ act, and while despicable, it is anything but cowardly). However, saying that the only thing they’ve done is blow up love shops is ignorant.
47. swaps | December 7th, 2008 at 9:35 am
The punch line is actually this:
“This article was first published on May 29, 2002”
Gary you are right…almost. I wish you would get that part on the Chiinese right someday.
48. LB | December 7th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
C. Khan, try fucking googling you moron:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jannu
I dont know why Brecher mentions it, but it is hardly a fucking imaginary place.
49. Bhenchod | December 7th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Talking about the Indians and the Chinese. Watch this video where the Chinese soldiers make the Indian soldiers look like rubbish.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-ey6ZUVzlbw
LOL.
50. oleg | December 7th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
dave, are you and Paul relatives or something? Ask your demented mother if you had a twin and were separated at birth? That level of retardation cannot be just a simple coincidence.
First, Chechnya. Your wonderboy Bush would send his daughters to party with the Taliban just to achieve a fraction of what Putin achieved in Chechnya. And Chechens as warriors are 10 times that of an average Iraqi, 3 times of an average Pashtun and 122 times of an average American without the radio.
Second, Afghanistan. USSR invaded Afghanistan when it was still a perky country with plenty of fight in it. Soviets were fighting not only America’s friend Osama bin Laden (turned out to be a good man if you ask me), but basically the rest of the world as well. Crybabies Americans wondered into Afghanistan when it was already exhausted place, with no will and no capablity to resist. Yanks bought themselves support from the rest of the world – AND STILL MANAGED TO FUCK IT ALL UP! Strongest military, my arse. It’s a freaking kindergarden of morons, if you ask me.
Needless to say, it’s all going downhill from here. Let’s hope a worthless POS like you will enlist and die heroically from a friendly fire.
51. LB | December 7th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Seriously, the Russian have secured Chechnya because there are hardly any fucking male Chechynans left. They took heavy casualties and all kinds of BS from the Chechyans, and now they have won. Why? Russia still produces Men, America just produces frat boys.
52. esch | December 7th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
all this talk of kashmir makes me wanna listen to led zeppelin
“oh let the sun beat down upon my face…
..all the way to, kashmir”
I also welcome all the south asians to the exile funland, keep going at it boys!
53. dave | December 8th, 2008 at 1:09 am
@ oleg, the russians bought off Kadyrov. Thats how they “won” chechnya. Putin actually gave him a Hero of Russia Medal. A man who was involved in and orchestrated the killing of russian soldiers during the first war gets to collect a medal from putin, while hundreds of paraplegic vets ride the subways of moscow day and night begging for spare kopeks. (zhalka)
I lived in russia for years and have friends who fought in chechnya. your analysis is stupid & insulting. Bin laden good man?? you probably loved basayev and khattab too. the internet is a good place for you to spew your trash, we both know you wouldnt dare in person.
54. kivera | December 8th, 2008 at 1:17 am
pissing conteeeest!
55. Koryavi | December 8th, 2008 at 2:39 am
To give shit to someone u otta be able to take it (c)
Gary speaks shit sometimes,but he’s OK on the general picture – hardware alone doesn’t do anything.It’s the men who do the fighting killing and dying.It’s just like in Chechen war I – Russian forces hardly knew what they were fighting for,and domestic media was pouring TONS of BS on them.Hence the result.I really doubt that Indians and Pakistanians have the reason for a nuclear\full-scale conventional war now,and that’s been ascertained by comments here.
And..there could be different,more *polite* ways of saying what Brecher does say in his articles,but Brecher’s choice of vocabulary is one of the reasons people read this blog.
56. warnoob | December 8th, 2008 at 3:56 am
The reason why India or even USA tip toe around and do not want go to war and defeat the organised chaos called Pakistan is because a politicaly correct occupation of pak would simply be pure hell. It would be like opening pandoras box and releasing 3x Somalias. NOBODY wants to deal that kind of occupation. So that narrows the play field down to a major skirmish at best.. The Pak elite always known it, ISI always known it, Talib know it, AQ..maybe, ISI trained Janal/Decadent mujj(whatever) might be bullheaded enough not to realise and/or could just be trying to instigate a war between the two (w or w/o blessing of the ISI)to stirr things up over Indian part of Kashmir that has a muslim majority. If the ISI is directly involved then somebody there wants to raise the tensions between India pak for some reason.
57. Carpenter | December 8th, 2008 at 4:43 am
I love it!
“But look at what happened the one time they tried fighting a real army: the India-China war of 1962. India decided that its new status as world power required it to grab a few square miles of Himalayan wasteland from China. They worked themselves up into a war frenzy and attacked the Chinese. The Chinese, who don’t do woofing, made no boasts, tried smoothing things over, and when that failed, quietly flattened the Indian army. It was a rout: mustaches and swaggersticks sprinting downhill so fast the snow hadn’t yet melted on their helmets when they hit 120-degree Delhi. After that, the Indians decided they’d stick to picking on someone less than half their own size: the Pakistanis.”
Listen and learn. The War Nerd once again proves he is the world’s only real War Poet!
58. Gethsemani | December 8th, 2008 at 5:03 am
The question that should always be asked is “Why go to war?”. No one is stupid enough to venture into a war without any considerations as to what the possible gains of such an action could be, or what the cost of failure might be. If there is something that history has shown us time and time again it is that the cost of failure is often downplayed or simply just overlooked by those in charge when it becomes to inconveniently high (Napoleon, Austria-Hungary during WW1, Germany during WWII and the USA in Iraq are just a few examples).
What unites all of the above examples are that they have paid terrible prices for their mistake of going to war without taking into consideration the worst case scenario. But also that their gains are quite high. Control of all of Europe (in the case of Napoleon and Germany), expanding territory into the balkans and thus getting many major ports into the med (in the case of Austria-Hungary, that was a landlocked nation) or a swift propaganda victory to prove that no one stands up against you (Iraq War).
Even the US Vietnam intervention was based on the idea that they were stopping the “domino effect” of countries falling to communism 1 by 1 which was seen as an important goal by the self-proclaimed defenders of liberalism and capitalism.
Compare this to the India-Pakistan situation. What is the best case scenario? That one of the two manages to push the other fully out of a region of mostly mountains that has no real value apart from prestige. It is something that no decent leader would ever go to war over, especially not when it could escalate as far as the use of nuclear weapons (highly unlikely, but the possibility exists). Even in a good case scenario, thousands of people would die in the ensuing conflict and material losses on both sides would rise into hundreds of millions of dollars. And this is even before we are taking into account the political balance in the area. How would China react? What would the USA do if India attacks their “Coalition Allies” in Pakistan?
India is playing it smart. Pakistan is also playing it smart. And in this case, playing it smart means going for the safe hand and kepping your bets low. The total winnings on the table is simply not worth going all in for and the price of failure could be immensly high for both sides. And in all likelyhood the price will be high if the conflict escalates too far.
59. Toba | December 8th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Gee fellahs! Get that bur out of your asses.You boys behave as if ‘you’ were entrusted with the responsibilities and decisions of American ‘you would have done a better job? Now I admit that we have done things upsidedown with the jackasses that fill our Senate and Congress not to mention the white house but all in all,our track record is outstanding,especially when compared to what “you” have done or is capable of doing.
See, you boys come to america to “make it” not only because your home countries are dirty and full of religious or racial tards but because many of you have found out that tree bark and pets are not food and in the case of russia,tree bark and vodka.
You come to america because you don’t want to wear dresses and funny headgear even though you are a man and you also want something more than a donkey or a goat for a girlfriend and in the case of russia having a constant fattening pig after the age of 21.
Now,India and Pakistan are not going to fight each other,not because of being smart but because of an inability to withstand requirements of being the Boss. See when you want to be the Boss you take risks and from that point on your life is on the line every moment,every day.You have to kick ass and take names and occasionally your ass is going to be kicked, but in the end you always come out on top because you are testing yourself and doing it hard. You’re not resting on the accomplishments of your ancestors and expecting jokers to be impressed with you as if you were capable of doing what your ancestors could.
You boys are having a great chuckle about Grenada but what was your Uncle to do? permit the grenadians to build an airport that would have been able to withstand the weight of 747’s and these newer heavier aircraft and so shift the economic base of the tourism in Florida from Europe and Asia directly into the West Indies! Things don’t happen that way sport.
As for Vietnam,for the next several generation,little ho chi or his sister had better be careful where they steer the water buffalo when plowing that field because one wrong step and that little undiscovered unexploded bomblet is going to give them a taste of what great great great grandad or ma learnt ,a courtesy of messing with your Uncle.
We might loose here and there but at least we have the balls to recover and go on to greater and better things whilst “you clowns” play it safe and stay in the dirty little corner like the scared chickens you are making imperious utterances like “the price will be high,bets low as if you know whst you are talking about.
Here’s a nice safe bet for you,100 to 1 that you’re blogging from the US and not some dirty little country outside where much can be said of the communications system,nay Internet.
Say what you like,we know and ‘you’ know that these two fags are scared of starting a fight because both want to be the pussy. The fat man called it and we stand by it because ‘we’ know you.
And you’re wrong about Vietnam. You see Marianne was getting her ass reamed well and she called out to her Uncle. A version of ‘white man’s responsibility to another white man’s problem that didn’t play out well,that’s all.
If you boys had any sense at all you would have played the caste system like how it was originally meant to be played where ability takes precident over skin color,family and such but you played it like how chickens do and the result is your low caste folks unable to get anywhere even if they were capable,decided on that Muslim thing instead of that Hindu thing and now you have an absolute mess on your hands and now you want play it safe because if you fight the pakis, it not only becomes a Brahman gets his ass kicked by a sudra thing, it becomes a muslim thing against you all over the world and we can see how the problem becomes difficult when those darn arab muslims jump in with that unlimited supply of cash and eager killers.
60. NPJ | December 8th, 2008 at 7:52 am
A racial slur in the title? War nerd I enjoy your articles but do try to not be such an odious human being.
61. Mar C | December 9th, 2008 at 4:30 am
Why did Pakistan help the yanks with their post 9/11 military operations against other Muslim countries? Maybe it isn’t the Pakistani nukes Indians are afraid of, but their allies.
62. VDV | December 9th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Dave, turning enemies into friends may not be such a bad idea. It is definitely much better than the dumbfuck bully strategy the US has been following in the recent history: attack anyone you dislike at your own will and eventually get fucked and ashamed everywhere.
63. C Khan | December 11th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
@LB Yes, War Nerd was thinking of a mountain in Nepal. Every time you open your mouth, stupid comes out of it. Do us all a favor and promise never to reproduce.
64. The Amazing Crustacean | December 13th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
You forget the massacres of Muslims by Hindu nationalists in Gujarat. The pacifism of Hindu monks has to be measured against things like the Bhagavad-Gita, which explicitly tells Arjuna that he should fight the other side, do his duty, and not be afraid of death because the essence of the self does not perish.
65. gary=gay | December 14th, 2008 at 6:04 am
Glad we got the nukes. Enough said.
66. denk | February 16th, 2009 at 1:10 am
c khan
**no, china attacked india in 1962**
then how come indian troops was fighting at NORTH of the mcmahon line ?
67. Chinese-Canadian Justin | November 11th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
I think Gary has it right about the sino-indian war (as he always does) and summed it up succinctly, but to add some academic weight behind him for those who disagree …
from the chapter “PLA operational principal and limited war” by Cheng Feng and Larry Wortzhel
“As another example, Chinese troops in the earlier phase of the dispute showed great restraint in the execution of their ordersm even when faced with serious provocations by Indian forces… However, Chinese restraint in the early stages also may have given the wrong ompression to the Indian government and military, which seem to have regarded the attitude of and activity of Chinese troops as weak. As a consequence, the Indian Army pursued its “forward policy,” nibbling up more Chinese territory, which then compelled China to opt for a broader war.”
[collected from the book Chinese warfighting – the PLA experience from 1949 (pg 190)]
I wish I could reproduce the whole chapter in this excellent book but one paragraph will have to do.
68. Jordan | November 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
that mean becuase im have indian
69. Jordan | November 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
im mean im part indian
and im related to a indian and she will not like you people are talking bad about us online
70. Jordan | November 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
you all are fagets and you all are hoes
71. Jordan | November 29th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
you are the only fagets
72. Spinner | December 10th, 2009 at 3:37 am
Congratulations to the author and all the participants for making me laugh like anything after reading article and the comments!
Well, I have to say in most of the cases, comments are more entertaining than actual article. Toba, I like your comments perhaps more girls in forum will make discussion more entertaining.
Any Soap Opera needs SEX.
73. John | November 2nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
Came accross this article. I have to say, hilarious and insightful at the same time. Good one Gary.
74. Hamza | April 21st, 2012 at 11:46 pm
I’m a Paki livin in UK fuck white ppl and them ugly dot headed indians!!!!! I stab the shit outta them 2 ugly arse race!!!!!!!!! LONG LIVE PAKILAND!!!!! LONG LIVE PAKI PANTHERZ & ISLAM!!!!!!!!!!
75. Daddy P | July 7th, 2012 at 4:18 am
Hamza. Tu kutta hai. CHup baith. Hell yeah. Hamza is a pimp in UK. Sure must be arrested by now. I don’t understand how he got out of jails of UK. Must have Pimped(word changed) a bobbi sissy for getting out of Jail. Hey, stoner Hamza keep trucking. And for you- Lick My MidFinger Beeotch!
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